There is never a dull moment on this thread, and we appreciate the new episodes to digest – especially with the refocus on Liz’s importance to the storyline! Even though Heart of Mine and Cry Your Name have some inducing scenes, and future episodes look to provide even more conflict in the Max and Liz relationship, we have been provided lots of stuff to chat about and dissect! SO, JK and RM – keep it coming PLEASE!! !!

Feedback is always welcome! Just PM me. I will continue to let you know when I up-date the Introduction so you can head over there to read the new information when I add it in.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Background

Basic Thesis

Just a reminder - Our basic thesis is that LIZ IS AN IMPORTANT AND ESSENTIAL ELEMENT TO THE ALIEN MYTHOLOGY!

What is Subject for Discussion?

Liz's importance to the pod squad - and the survival of the human race for that matter - and theories concerning the beings - especially Max - and mysteries swirling around Liz - are what we discuss. So - feel free to join on in, or just lurk! And don't worry about going off on a tangent - they ALL tend to lead back to Liz's importance! We are an optimistic and friendly - though seriously anal retentive - group! So - dive in, and join the fun!! But remember - NO SPOILERS! We want everyone to feel welcome!

Liz is Important - The Liz/Max Connection

Consequence of the Connection - the Change?

Origin of the Connection - Where is Liz from, really?

Granolith - How does it fit in?

Destiny - Liz and Max!

Follow Your Heart

Symbolism - WE Do Not Ignore Anything!

Chakras

Einstein's Light Cone

Chariots of Fire - Liz's Necklace in VLV

The "Bride" - will the real one please stand up!

The Books - WHY Doesn't anyone read these things?

The Catalyst - Liz!

Vision Quest - How does Liz fit in?

Time Travel - "Run, Lola, Run"

Hero Journey - Liz's Path

I wanted to add that I believe the occurrences of the last two episodes (HOM and CYN) play right into Liz’s Hero Journey!

Grandma Claudia - the first connection?

I just wanted to add here that many of us believe that that fact that Liz’s necklace that she wore to the Prom had been Grandma Claudia’s is VERY SIGNIFICANT! Finally, a tie into GC, her Native American connection and Season 1! Now – if we could only figure out “what” it was!

Lifebonds vs. Soulmates

Sheila Hubble - Eerie resemblance to Liz! - What's the connection?

Venus - Liz's mythical connection to the stars!

Numbers - It all adds up to Liz and Max!

Numbers keep cropping up that seem to fall into our 2, 3, 5 groupings. Like the bus that Liz misses is 33_5, the bowling alley lane is 32, Max remembers 3 moons, Alex’s funeral and the concert is on 5/5 and the song at the end of Cry Your Name mentions the number 3! There is no way that this is just a coincidence!

Cave Map Symbols - All signs lead to Liz?

Skins - What lies below the surface?

We keep wondering where Nicko disappeared to – and Lonnie, Rath and Ava for that matter. Is it just a matter of time before Khivar shows up? Maybe – with Alex’s death – he already has?? Ummm….!

Shapeshifters - Are there more than one?

Remember – Harding and Nasedo and Tic Tac are NOT all one and the same shapeshifter!

Handholding - the symbol of the V constellation

Mythology!

Dates

Dates seem to be of extreme interest to those on this thread. So, follow the link to a rundown of dates as I've been able to gather them from episodes, official sites and factual research. If you find a date I’ve missed or see one that is wrong – PM me with the change and where you got your information! I’m always looking for new dates!

New dates added include:

4/27/2001 – Roswell Prom & Date Liz begins to start writing in her Journal again. (Heart of Mine)
5/3/2001 – Alex is killed. (Cry Your Name)
5/4/2001 – Kyle’s Birthday (18th?) (Cry Your Name)
5/5/2001 – Alex Whitman’s funeral (Cry Your Name)

In Summary

Finally, (I always have to add this - if anyone from the production staff or THE WB reads this or the Intro), WE ALL AGREE THAT THE LIZ/MAX CONNECTION IS CRITICAL TO THE SHOW, AND THAT TOGETHER MAX AND LIZ MAKE AN INCREDIBLE FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!! Even Ron Moore stated in the commentary for Ask Not that the "Max and Liz relationship is so strong and so central to the entire series!"

And as to the Season 3 rumors – this is a wonderful show, with the potential to be another “X-files” with intimate relationships if done right! SO – please don’t let it go!!

A couple of general "rules" - NO SPOILERS (even asides about spoilers are not allowed – I can’t emphasize this enough as we move towards the season finale), but anything "aired" is subject to discussion, including coming attractions/preview and things on the Silverhandprint site. Pictures are welcome, as is deleted dialog from posted scripts of shows that have been aired and commentary by writers/producers. If you know what a preview “really means” due to spoilers, please DON’T tell us – let us speculate – we will find out soon enough! Thanks!

As Alex - true and loyal friend to Liz - says - "Gripa det dagen" (seize the day)!

Zero
[b]I Shall (Try to Continue to) Believe!!
The Truth Is Out There![/b]

Please check out the link to the full gallery:

The most compelling visual evidence of Liz's mythology and connection to Max is the fact that when they come together - they often form the symbol on the orb found in Sexual Healing:

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

aldebaran - yep, I always think if more than one of us feel a certain way independently, we sure might be on to something.

More about Tess: You know I think the thing that really set me off was reading her prom memory description cards over at the silverhandprint yesterday. I seriously thought she had gone off the edge, she seemed totally loopy. The whole destiny with Max thing from season one was back and very evident. Plus her song with Kyle was "Oops I did it again" The lines in that song go something like... I played with your heart, I made you believe we're more than just friends, Why was she toying with Kyle. Was it to make us leave our guards down so she can trot on in for the kill? I think the group definitely started to accept her more once she became good friends with Kyle. Hmmm....

Also... about the code that we think is binary. Aren't there at least three types of binary code? The most well known is ascii, and doesn't that have 8 digits to every letter, number, or symbol that it represents? There were only 20 digits to Alex's code. My strength is definitely NOT computer science. I think I'll have to pick my husband's brain somemore tonight. I don't think Ron Moore would make this too easy for us. If he had, we would have figured out just what it means already. So obviously there must be some kind of twist to it.

Comments anybody?

I moved this over from the end of thread 37 so I could get your comments.

I think I found a major clue and it's the word CHERRY, now where have we herd this word before?
Tess on 4sq said, "I'll have a CHERRY coke with lime." Guess what happened once she said this? Max begin his mindwarp trip of Tess and I think he is still on board.

Now we have CYN. When the delivery guy explains to Alex why he is late, he said,
"Sorry man I got turned around on CHERRY drive." What happens next? Alex becomes depressed. Alex said "I'm so sick of this, Always cold, always the samething. I'm sick of everything. Why does life have to be so wrong? Why does everything have to be a lie?"

It seems like Max was forced to think of Tess in his hypnotic state. Alex on the other hand was to go into depression. But Why? So he would kill himself? I'm still thinking about this one.
Does this mean the delivery guy is working with Tess? Yes I think it does. Look at the way Liz looks at him when she holds the door open. She looks suspicious, just like she did when Tess walked into the Crashdown and placed her order. I first thought it was jealousy but I really think their was more to it. Maybe she was seeing the evil with in.

When the Delivery guy is talking about Alex with the other students, Liz questions him and he seems taken back by her. But what really stuck out at me was the way she approched him. It was the same way she approached Nasedo on S&B in back of the Crashdown. So the delivery guy and Nasedo could be one in the same. But this would also mean that Liz is being set up because he gave her the code.

One more thing. Remember my post about Tess's prom card saying that she met Max at the punchbowl when she first arrived at prom. She had their initials in the hearts and she wrote "before prom" next to them. Well I wondered what she said to him to turn him into SMax. Just a guess, but just maybe they were serving "CHERRY" punch.

Evid

Ok, some observation coming solely from memory from last night.

OMG! I can't believe that I didn't pick this up when it aired, but I just realized the foreshadowing that was shown when Alex came back. Wasn't he the one who told Liz that she had to travel someday. He was basically telling her about her impending "Journey" whatever it may be. If indeed it wasn't the 'real' Alex who came back from Sweden then I can't help but think that perhaps there were moments were it really WAS him. And with just like Max it's always with Liz that it's the "real" them. Make sense? Let's just hope that Max keeps his promise to be there when she returns from said "Journey."

Didn't someone here mention that perhaps the Iz connection to the men around her (romantic) was the cause to his death? Involving Kivar, I man. I couldnt' believe it when Liz mentioned it

I also think it's important to remember that 2 (or maybe more) crucial scenes were left out. When Max "tried" to heal Alex and the "accident" itself. This was done on purpose, I think, cuz it leaves things wide open for any scenario.

OH! OH! One thing I remembered. This might mean nothing, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway. The notes that Liz played on Alex's guitar, do they mean anything?

Roxy

Also, on the other thread I had posted on page 10 and no one responded. I was wondering if anyone had any comments? I know it's been awhile since I posted- but you guys have always been kind to me here!

Does this mean the delivery guy is working with Tess? Yes I think it does. Look at the way Liz looks at him when she holds the door open. She looks suspicious, just like she did when Tess walked into the Crashdown and placed her order. I first thought it was jealousy but I really think their was more to it. Maybe she was seeing the evil with in.

When the Delivery guy is talking about Alex with the other students, Liz questions him and he seems taken back by her. But what really stuck out at me was the way she approched him. It was the same way she approached Nasedo on S&B in back of the Crashdown. So the delivery guy and Nasedo could be one in the same. But this would also mean that Liz is being set up because he gave her the code.

Evid

Interesting theory about the word "cherry". The word "cherry " can mean several things. Don't think I'm strong enough to tackle that one though!

Maybe the delivery guys is Tic-Tac? Could be why he's helping Liz, if the protector theory is correct.

Don't have much time to read through, but I'll be back tomorrow to catch up. Until then..

quote:Originally posted by SweetJo:
Ok, RBI's here it goes!<Picture>

11100100100111011001

In binary code:
-part of it can be a K
-part of it can be Jan. 1st, 2004

but the whole binary code turns up nothing--111 is not part of any code or something

OK, so that's not entriely true. I wiped the cobwebs from the brain and got this hexidecimal translation:

11100100100111011001 breaks into:

1110 = E
0100 = 4
1001 = 9
1101 = D
1001 = 9

So, E49D9? Doesn't mean anything to me - anyone else!?

I think I found a major clue and it's the word [b]CHERRY, now where have we herd this word before?
Tess on 4sq said, "I'll have a CHERRY coke with lime." Guess what happened once she said this? Max begin his mindwarp trip of Tess and I think he is still on board.

Now we have CYN. When the delivery guy explains to Alex why he is late, he said,
"Sorry man I got turned around on CHERRY drive." What happens next? Alex becomes depressed. Alex said "I'm so sick of this, Always cold, always the samething. I'm sick of everything. Why does life have to be so wrong? Why does everything have to be a lie?"

It seems like Max was forced to think of Tess in his hypnotic state. Alex on the other hand was to go into depression. But Why? So he would kill himself? I'm still thinking about this one.
Does this mean the delivery guy is working with Tess? Yes I think it does. Look at the way Liz looks at him when she holds the door open. She looks suspicious, just like she did when Tess walked into the Crashdown and placed her order. I first thought it was jealousy but I really think their was more to it. Maybe she was seeing the evil with in.

When the Delivery guy is talking about Alex with the other students, Liz questions him and he seems taken back by her. But what really stuck out at me was the way she approched him. It was the same way she approached Nasedo on S&B in back of the Crashdown. So the delivery guy and Nasedo could be one in the same. But this would also mean that Liz is being set up because he gave her the code.

One more thing. Remember my post about Tess's prom card saying that she met Max at the punchbowl when she first arrived at prom. She had their initials in the hearts and she wrote "before prom" next to them. Well I wondered what she said to him to turn him into SMax. Just a guess, but just maybe they were serving "CHERRY" punch.

Evid[/B]

I too noticed the Cherry Drive comment, and it may mean something.

As for Tess' prom memories card, I think that some of the items refer to Max and some to Kyle. We specifically saw Kyle go straight to the punch bowl (so he could meet Malamud and realize he thinks of Tess as a sister), so I believe that's what Tess is referring tot here. As for the hearrts, there are TWO pairs of hearts on that page. The top pair are slightly separated; these are the ones labeled "before prom." The bottom ones are linked; these are labeled "after prom." I think Tess was trying to signal that she and Max were separate before prom and together after prom.

Chad No, the writers have not mentioned Liz's powers or had any kind of demonstration or anything since MITC (can you tell that it annoys me? ).

In Isabel's second dream sequence, what Alex actually says is, "I have a feeling I wouldn't want me to be here." As in, Alex the person that Isabel knew and loved would not want his spirit to be haunting Isabel's dreams.

I have lots more, but I'll be back later
~Tas

I posted 1st42’s comments about jello vs. cement. They were insightful, so I thought I would quote them here!

Thanks to Tasyfa for suggesting that lce post her theory. It’s great, Leah!!!

Meta—great post about needing human energy. I think that their life force needs to be present and a lot of time can not pass. I think Max does manipulate that Balance to heal. It makes sense.

Quote by Aldebaran- The first shot of the group (after the first commercial break) was of "the group" minus Alex and Amy. It was very reminiscent of the statement Liz made in HOM about feeling like it was the last time they would all be together (side note - wonder if any significance that Amy wasn’t in that shot)
This is an excellent observation!

Quote by Aldebaran - Not to bash Tess, but why was she more weepy than anyone else initially? I didn't get the impression that she was all that close to Alex.
Okay, I too noticed Tess falter when Valenti announces Alex is dead and when, after Max can’t save Alex, Tess is shown full screen. I think there are 3 possibilities:
1) Tess killed him and the guilt is getting to her.
2) Tess was involved in a plan with Nicholas and Lonnie and was shocked that one of them ended up killing Alex.
3) Tess was feigning shock to show how sensitive she is to Max.
So basically, I did not get a good vibe.

Quote by peej
The comment made earlier about the 2 movies. I felt that was also intentional along with what was said about each one.
Crouching tiger hidden dragon- love, honor, duty
Matrix- allusion, reality, gunfire.
I cant quite put my finger on it but its something.

I think this is an indication of what is important to Max: love, honor, duty. In that order! I think this scene was included because it shows what Max cares about and that this SM is not him!!!

Close Caption:
Wake scene: You hear Kyle say “Frisco, huh? I think that’s great.” Isabel’s response is not heard “Yeah, anything to get out of New Mexico.”

I noticed day of concert was 5-5. I thought 5-5 was Kyle’s birthday however. I will have to check back.

When Liz sees Alex’s locker there is a poster that says “TRY.”

The phrase “The End of The World” is used at least 2X in the episode.

sunrise—I can see the scene where Liz tells Max to go to Isabel in three different ways.
1) I agree that Liz was trying to process the events that had just happened. It didn’t make sense to her. And it is quite probable she was suspicious from the get go. Who goes to the junk yard to check out the automobile. She was looking for clues and she was focused on it.
2) Liz is strong and she knew that Isabel needed more support at the time. I did find it interesting that she was left standing alone. She was set apart from everyone.
3) Liz was in shock. I think she was processing the whole Fmax and how she changed the future with him.

But one thing I mentioned on the Cherish thread, was when Liz is around, Tess doesn’t have control (over Max). In the scene where Liz and Tess are standing with Max, and Tess tells Max to go to Isabel, Max looks to Liz. It wasn’t until he knew Liz was okay and not until Liz told him it was okay to go, did he go. Stepford Max was nowhere in sight.

Zero—you go, girl! Rant! Rant! Rant!

At first I was upset with Michael leaving but he is loyal if nothing else. He is still loyal to Maria, I feel, but he has to show support for his peeps (WORD )

Thank you, Redhawk—I was trying to figure out what that bumper sticker said. I could read “Every man” but couldn’t catch the rest!

~*~Meaghan~*~

I am assuming that this information was disclosed to the whole group sometime after MITC, or possibly as late as the recent 6 week hiatus time span. One of my favourite love/hate things about Roswell is all the off-screen conversations What it says to me, actually, is that Maria's HOM intro was correct: a lot has been happening in Roswell while we were away, and full disclosure appears to have been one of those things (about time, too!). I am wondering if M&M said anything about the Michael worshippers yet, though. But the group as a whole seems easier together, more like a team than they have for a long time--and I mean before Valenti came into the CD. In spite of the obvious reasons for tension, there was a solid team feeling there, to me anyway. Of course that wasn't so by the end of the ep, but I think it'll be resolved
~Tas

Thanks for saying that! There is so much sci-fi tied into the 'Balance'. I wish they would explore it further because the possibilities are endless. It is my opinion that the Balance is related to everything.

quote:Quote by Aldebaran - Not to bash Tess, but why was she more weepy than anyone else initially? I didn't get the impression that she was all that close to Alex.

On Tess's reactions I wasn't sure what they meant. Perhaps EDR is just a good 'cry on command' type of actress? Who knows. However, just for poops and giggles -- did anyone notice that her accent slipped up when they were all in Alex's room and she gets up and says "Keep your voices down". I DEFINITELY heard a bit of an Aussie tinged accent.

quote:Quote by peej
The comment made earlier about the 2 movies. I felt that was also intentional along with what was said about each one.
Crouching tiger hidden dragon- love, honor, duty
Matrix- allusion, reality, gunfire.
I cant quite put my finger on it but its something.

Pure foreshadowing (and excellent writing, by the way). We know from the promos that Max [supposedly] gets Tess pregnant and that they are [maybe?] going to be able to finally go home. My guess is that Max is going to be acting out of [misplaced!] love, honor and duty to Tess (don't gag, just think past wife stuff and you know what I mean) and Michael is going to be on the opposing side pointing out or realizing what is illusion and what is reality reality and somehow it's all going to come to blows (hence the gunfire). There is NO DOUBT in my mind that this is what that line meant. And how adorable was JB when he said, "I won't let you". Great lighthearted moment.

quote:sunrise - I can see the scene where Liz tells Max to go to Isabel in three different ways.
1) I agree that Liz was trying to process the events that had just happened. It didn’t make sense to her. And it is quite probable she was suspicious from the get go. Who goes to the junk yard to check out the automobile. She was looking for clues and she was focused on it.
2) Liz is strong and she knew that Isabel needed more support at the time. I did find it interesting that she was left standing alone. She was set apart from everyone.
3) Liz was in shock. I think she was processing the whole Fmax and how she changed the future with him.

I took Liz's reaction as a combination of shock, anger at Alex's death and also in light of what happened at the Prom, anger at Max. Liz was watching Max and Tess interact right before she said that, and that had to hurt. I thought Liz was really pissed at Max, and it wasn't until she realized that she needed his help in convincing Valenti that Alex's death wasn't a suicide, coupled with the fact that she probably had a chance to digest the fact that Alex was gone...that she turned to him. An interesting note about the scene at the house with Max and Liz...when she was first ranting and raving about what Valenti was about to do, she didn't even so much as look at Max. It was more like she needed to 'vent' then she needed to talk to him directly. However, I really loved it when Max got in Valenti's face about telling Liz that Alex's death was a suicide. It was like he internalized all of her anger and really LET GO on Valenti. That was the old Max we used to know and love. Sticking up for his Liz.

Just little added notes, I was sorely disappointed with how they portrayed
Sheriff Valenti in this episode. I would've like to have seen him try to comfort Liz or try to comfort the others. The whole thing when they were leaving the Coroner's van where he said that they should all go home...the Sheriff I know and love would've made sure that Liz got home safely. He would've made sure that NONE of them were alone. It really irked me, and it was very out of character.

I thought Kyle was amazing, and I loved how Michael was so protective of Maria. It did a heart good to see it. Also loved how when Max was crying under the bleachers, he was kind of hiding it -- especially when the others joined them..he turned his back while quickly wiping his eyes. So realistic of how guys are.

Just random observations....

{~}:}

Re- the pictures. I did get the feeling that Liz was looking for something when she was going through those pictures. Just thought I was reading too much into things.

That bothered me as well, but I believe the writer’s did that to show that Liz was alone and she may be alone (in her theories).

About Liz looking at the pictures—she was definitely organizing them into specific piles.

redhawk I am hoping that some other poor person actually understood WTF you were talking about b/c I found that more incomprehensible that the light cone theories!

OK, these are a few of my observations on CYN. I'm going to post them in bits b/c I have over 2 pages worth

-the blood on Max's hand when he got out of the van. Note that Max is the only hybrid who has not killed so far. I think this was a clue that he & the other 3 are somehow responsible for Alex's death. Later, in Alex's room, I think that's partly why he was so upset. Ditto for Isabel, b/c she had already been thinking that his death had something to do with being involved with her, and then Liz pointed out a possible reason why that could be true (Khivar). I don't think anyone handled that situation very well, which is as it should have been (though that doesn't make it less frustrating to watch ). No one is thinking clearly, they are all in some kind of grieving process with every emotion close to the surface. That's generally when such harsh things get said, and so they did. More observations about what happened in Alex's room: when Liz said "It's not true," Tess looks at Max. 30 seconds later, Max is saying, "Well, I'm not so sure." Coincidence? I don't think so! Stepford Max makes his appearance then. Also, when Liz says, "Would you just think about it for a minute?" Michael moves away a little from Maria, like he knows he's going to have to leave in a minute. He's the one who says, "What possible reason would an alien have to kill Alex?" I think Michael knows more than he is letting on. In VLV, when he sees Max ask Liz to dance, I thought his expression indicated that some plan of his had come to fruition. I was getting that same feeling from his actions in this scene. Plus, he rose and went with Max-which is what he should have done. Michael's first loyalty HAS to be to Max, no matter how much he loves Maria. As for Tess, apparently Liz specifically sent her to watch for Max's arrival (would have liked to see that conversation!), and she makes the first negative comment to Liz, about slim evidence.

-the blood pattern in the car was weird. It was mainly on the back of the seat, and didn't seem to be anywhere else. Since Max said that there was so much blood, there should have been more in the car. I was actually half-expecting Liz to get a flash from it when she ran her hand over the seat, like Isabel did in Surprise when she blotted Grant's neck.

-"Special powers don't help." Several things here. They didn't help Max bring Alex back. They're not helping Isabel deal with Alex's death. I thought Diane's reaction was telling. I think she realized that Isabel was implying that Max had failed to heal Alex. Diane does know her son is special. I'm wondering if this was a prelude to her finding out the truth eventually. I'm not sure if I hope it is or not.

-Alex's car was doing about 70 mph when it impacted the truck, which was doing about 55 mph according to the driver. Therefore, Alex was speeding considerably. Also, I can't recall exactly, but I believe the truck that hit Zan was also going about 70 mph. We know Rath is capable of speeding up a vehicle; how much more of a stretch would it be to also twist the steering wheel? Or maybe Lonnie twisted the wheel while Rath hit the accelerator. Either works for me

-when Isabel announces that she's leaving for college, Michael and Tess both look at Max. Both to see if he knew, and also to see if he approved, I think. And then when Max says that now is not the time for snap judgements, he looks back at Michael to back him up. Which he does. I thought this was good to see, actually; they're working as a team again, and they need to be.

-Liz does not yet know that Isabel plans to leave. She was grilling the delivery boy when Isabel made her announcement, and she would not have heard more than a snatch of conversation between Iz & Kyle at the Whitmans'. Personally, at this point, I can't see anything less than Liz coming clean about Future Max being enough to persuade Isabel to stay. Course, that's also wishful thinking

That's it for now!
~Tas

That bothered me as well, but I believe the writer’s did that to show that Liz was alone and she may be alone (in her theories).

About Liz looking at the pictures—she was definitely organizing them into specific piles.

Okay lets try this again . Liz did NOT look at the binary code and decypher it out. What happened was she realized that Khivar IS/WAS possessing Alex. How, ok pure logic. Aliens can possess people. Alex is with Isabel--ruling out aliens that KNOW about Isabel etc. Khivar would be the more logical. What Liz did was simply realize that was NOT Alex's signature, and "many miles to travel before I sleep"...Khivar is on his way to earth to reach them. How did she know it was an alien, who else would sign their name in binary codes . Does that make any sense? Hope that helps you clear that.

Another possibility could be:
(from SweetJo's binary crack )
K= Khivar and the date he will arrive earth(?)

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow
The sun forbear to shine
But God who called me here below
Will be forever mine

Yes when this flesh and heart shall fail
Immortal eyes shall see
I shall possess within the veil
A life of joy and peace

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now am found
Was blind but now I see

The third verse is the standard one that's usually sung first (at least at every funeral I've been to). However, I've never heard the first 2 verses here. Admittedly, I only know 3 verses of the song and I'm sure there are a ton of them, but why were these more obscure verses chosen is what I want to know! Thoughts, anyone?
~Tas

You don't suppose the E49D9 could be a car license number. How many digits do New Mexico plates or Swedish plates usually have?
Do we know what Tess' plate numbers are. Or perhaps it is highways. ...take East 49 to ?

With the numbers and letters together like that I feel like I'm playing Battleship. oh dear you sunk my D9 ship!

[/B]

I have a feeling that this code is going to mean something 'within' the show...it'll either be a password, some kind of coordinate (maybe of a location), or some kind of other language whose key will only exist in the land of Roswell. I have a feeling the answer to what it means lies within the realms of the show and not out here in real life. Just a thought...I really don't know much about codes -- binary or otherwise.

And yeah, where WAS Alex going? Good point Audrey. Why when I read your post did I immediately think he was heading to the pod chamber? That's the first thing that came to mind when you pointed out that he was on the highway.

Oh yeah, someone on an earlier thread mentioned that when Valenti pulled up to the accident you heard the same noise that you heard in WipeOut... what you actually heard when Valenti was pulling up to the accident was him scanning the radio...not the same sound as when the others disappeared in WO.

And yes, I know they specifically did that to Valenti to show how Liz was alone in her plight, and I think knowing that somehow irked me even more -- regardless of what the writers were tryng to convey it was just SO out of character.

At the end of the day, this is still one of the best episodes of the season and it was amazing to watch. But it's our jobs as the RBI's to pick apart the little details. It's all in the details.

{~}:}

quote:Originally posted by pershing:
At first I was thinking that it was Liz that split the group, but she was just presenting her theory that the hybrids didn't want to hear.

It was really Max that split the group when he said to Liz, "You don't know about Kivar or anything to do with OUR PLANET."(Is that quote right?) He made a point of ostracizing Liz right there, and split the group. Not Liz! He accused her of not understanding something she's been dealing with for over a year!

Had to share that point!

While I do agree with your post, I would like to offer another viewpoint. To me it seemed that both Max and Isabelle were very defensive about that subject...that they might be partially responsible.

It was obvious throughout the episode that Isabelle was feeling a tremendous amount of guilt (remember the conversation with her mom in the kitchen) and we know that Max takes the weight of the world on his shoulders, and at some level you have to know that he has considered this possibility and feels a tremendous guilt about it. And if not guilt, he does feel a sense of responsibility to the others and maybe he knows how guilty Isabelle is feeling and was protecting her. Either way, when something terrible happens it is 100% normal to run through a gamut of emotions -- and anger is normal. Furthermore, it is very normal for those with angry feelings to misplace them - or transfer them onto others who might not be the *actual* source of their anger. In psychological terms, I believe they call this transference. (and maybe Max's comment about Liz not knowing anything about Khivar, or their world is actually a reflection of how Max feels about himself. I mean, he doesn't really know any more about his other life than Liz does, now does he? Textbook definition of transference)

I don't know about any of you, but when I'm internalizing intense emotions I tend to lash out at people as a reaction -- especially people who bring up the very thing I'm internalizing.

I felt that all of them were devestated over what happened, and it left them vulnerable and scared and feeling guilty and for some, they dealt with it by being in denial about it. (not to be confused with our very own InDNile) There were probably a million other emotions that they all going through, as well.

This is all very normal, which is why I felt like all the reactions of the group were perfectly normal. What I found interesting is that they all had different reactions to their grief which very much fit in very well with all their characters.

Anyone agree?

{~}:}

I haven't read the end of the last thread, but I'm going to go ahead and comment at the risk of duplicating other's thoughts.

Aside from the sadness, I really loved this episode. Liz' intuitions were right on - I'm so glad she's going to get to the bottom of this, and not just Alex' death, either! She's about to figure it out, I think.

Coldness - Alex complained of being cold, of the food being cold, Max said his skin was "so cold - I wasn't expecting that". Well, NO KIDDING! He hadn't been dead long enough to get cold! So when did Alex die? Sheriff V makes a point of saying "Alex didn't die today" to Kyle. I think this was a huge hint HELLO???? Even though Valenti said "He died yesterday" I think "He didn't die today" was a giant clue.

As far as Liz looking at all those pictures, did you notice how pale Alex was in most of the latter ones? There was a noticable difference in his coloring in the later episodes.

I also got the impression more than once in this episode that the story line was playing itself out in more than one time dimension. Even though Iz dreamed the scene in the crashdown where Alex says he's not going anywhere I felt it was really happening in another dimensions; Iz's dreams (one of her gifts) are her key into the other dimension! Can she learn to harness that capability?
It also seemed to me that when Liz vomited there was something about that moment that made her ill. What did she sense? The existence of life in a different time dimension?

So, are they in a time dimension that's playing itself out badly? Could they get back to another one, and at what cost?

When Liz was showing the gang the concert tickets she made a strange statement about how "you don't plan your future if you don't think you're going to HAVE a future..." Of course she was talking about Alex, but it also made me think of FMax!

Many unrelated paragraphs -- .sry, to use a beloved Vihmakass expression!

Zara
Did you notice the food from the takeout guy was still sitting on Alex' desk? YUck.

I meant to post this earlier. I was just reminiscing(sp?) about the way things could have been without those nasty bad aliens. 14 years of marital bliss...

One more small quibble. I loved Maria singing at the funeral. Loved it. But, Alex is in a BAND. Where were the other members? Wouldn't they contribute musically to Alex's funeral as well? Has he even mentioned them since he came back from Sweden? If not, isn't it odd that he mentions them in the dream to Is? Perhaps that's the real Alex, talking.

I was also interested that a possible side effect to Liz "breathing" (and losing it) is that she's looking younger. There were a couple scenes where she almost looked twelve. For example, and I know this was deliberate, when she asks Mr. Whitman permission to go into Alex's room. But also when she is inches away from Max's face about the concert tickets, I thought her expressions were very child-like (and VERY well acted.). Do you remember what pains the producers went to in the beginning of the season to convey to us she was Womanly (yes, with a capital W!). Interesting contrast. I'm enjoying your posts immensely.

Oh, Redhawk, I too associated Tess with being a spider. She's always attaching herself to Max's arm. -HH

At least I'm not the only kook out here looking up binary codes, etc.

I agree with Meta in that it's probably a clue WITHIN the next few eppy's, but you know I want to figure it out first! Locations of where Alex was going, points on an axis, license plate numbers, some sort of combination to unlock something? ALL good possibilities!!!

She Cries Your Name
Falling from the west an so to find yourselves alone again,
Wondering where you have been,
Your lonely voice calls across the starlit coast,
Reaching out to be seen.

She cries your name,
Three times again,
She cries your name,
How long can this love remain.

Cut beneath the surface screen of what we say and what we seem,
Is a trick to be seen,
She keeps crying out your name,
But her scream sound the same,
How fickle fate can be.

She cries your name,
Three times again,
She cries your name,
How long can this love remain.

Birds that scream for territory can learn to sing euphorically,
Give him time an' he's real,
And there's a wasteland in your soul the burned out trees will leave you cold,
Living out an ideal.

She cries your name,
Three times again,
She cries your name,
How long can this love remain.

She cries your name,
Twelve times again,
She cries your name,
How long can this love remain.

B G# C# F#

I'm not a bass player - never ever tried. Too short, I guess. Don't know how you tune one, either, but this one sounds like "My Dog Has Fleas" to me (with the first note down an octave)...

"Alex came back from Sweden a new man, and Isabel finally noticed" - Maria said this at the beginning of the ep. I didn’t pay attention as much the first time I heard it, but this seems like a huge clue about (1) why Isabel was finally attracted to Alex and (2) why Alex was killed. Could the attraction be because this "new man" was really more Khivar-like? because Isabel/Vilandra/Lonnie - no matter the planet or dimension - is always going to be attracted to a certain type of man?
The pic of Alex and Leanna looked like they were posed exactly the same way as in the first pic/slide that we saw of them when Alex returned from Sweden. Either that just means cheap props or that it was done on purpose because there was no Sweden, no Leanna, no memories (sorry - no time to find caps)
A million people probably already notices this, but the Valenti chandelier is a wagon wheel. Also, are the Valenti’s back to only two dining chairs?
Not sure why I am mentioning this, but when Liz walks in school toward Alex’s locker, there is a poster on the wall. The only part of the poster that you see is "TRY". When Liz walks away from Maria after showing her the cut pic of Alex and Leanna, the only part of the poster that you see is "OUTS". Seems an odd time of the year to have try outs. Isn’t graduation right around the corner considering they just had prom? Maybe just indicates that Liz must try to "out" the truth?
When Max and Tess are under the bleachers, you can see two tackling dummies in the background, both of which have "01" on them. Just thought it was interesting to see the 01 number combination before seeing the credit card receipt.
When Liz first hears about and investigates Alex’s death, I think her coat is always closed. When she starts to verbally and physically show her anger/fury (yelling at the Sheriff and then in Max’s room), her coat is open - she is more open. When she is most emotionally vulnerable and open (when saying to Max "just always be my friend"), she isn’t wearing her coat. Almost seems that her armor is coming off at that point because at the funeral and afterward, she is again wearing a coat.
Isabel’s conversation with Alex in her second dream is very indicative of the fact that she thinks her alien nature is the reason for Alex’s demise.
Max made mention of the Spanish teacher (didn’t quite catch his name - Senor Ravia??). That was the second EOTW reference in this ep.
There is a carriage "statue" on Alex’s bookshelf (reminiscent of Liz's necklace in VLV). You can see it when Liz is asking Alex for help finding a clue. The carriage doesn’t appear to be there when Kyle makes the "us against them" statement.
The Whitmans appear to be Catholic (crucifix near the front door - can see it when the Sheriff and Max walk into the house)

Like I said, these are all just observations. Hope someone can glean some info or a theory from some of them

redhawk - When I read the "E49D9", the first thing I thought of was a license plate! Then again, I have been looking at license plates during the eps (for ex, Valentis is something like "345-RTS" or something). All the plates have the same pattern ***-*** (3 #, 3 letters)
meta - I at the :I won't let you" statement - reminded me of cheesy martial arts movie lines

Don't forget that the car was upside down. The blood would have dripped down onto the ceiling (which we didn't see).

If one of the aliens had touched the blood, they might have gotten a flash; but Liz only gets (got?) flashes from people.

Okay, I've been thinking today. Mainly about Tess' reaction to Alex's death. It wasn't a true Tess move. She's becoming more human but she's never bonded with Alex. It would have been understandable if Amy had died because she would have linked it to Nescedo, her only parent figure. It reminded me so much of Ava's reaction to Liz's healing. The absoulte shock and knowledge that something was going to go wrong.

Also Tess in her viewing of Max in a relationship has never been childlike or immature. She has always been the one to view it as a sexual realtionship, an adult realtionship. The prom book, when I first saw Tess' was that it was an Ava move. The way that the words were written and the placement of them seemed to remind me of the Ava scrapbook.

I know that you guys don't like Tess. In fact many of you hate her. I don't. I simply don't know what to make of her because they don't want me to. And I like that. You can attack me and stop reading my posts because of the fact that I am supportive of Tess, fine.

But I really don't think that Tess is Tess completely. She's not a stable character, but she is rather continuous and she has never tried to make her realtionship with Max romantic. She has always focused on the carnal aspects of it.

Those are my thoughts.

The impression that I got when I was watching that part is that the credit card receipt was just another clue for Liz so she knew that she needed to keep investigating. She promised to Alex to find out the truth about how he died so I got the impression that she saw the signature and knew that there was definitely something fishy about Alex's death. She knew that she has "miles to go" before she'll find out the truth and be able to rest easy.

I do think that there is a significant Alex/Kivar link though. We know that Alex knows about computers but I doubt he would ever sign in binary code unless his mind was being messed with.

Also, something must have definitely happened to him in Sweden. If he simply wanted to cut his face out of a picture to symbolize his disappearance, he could have used any old picture. But the fact that he used the Swedish picture with that Leanna girl is definitely significant.

Does anyone else find it hard to come up with original theories if they're spoiled? I guess it kind of makes sense since I can't talk about what will actually happen and I can't make myself throw bogus theories out there. It's true what they say...this is your brain on spoilers.

By the way aldebaran: I your signature--Ryan Phillipe and Angelina Jolie were so cute in that movie!

The film is definitely about strong women. Max mentioned Michelle Yeoh and her character, Yu, reminds me a lot of Liz. She is a noble, independent, intuitive, and powerful warrior and the heroine of the story. She and Li (Chow Yun Fat) are soulmates (it's a beautiful love story) but neither believes they can be together.

Li is a master swordsman. He is kind, thoughtful, honorable, and very strong. His very powerful, mythical sword is called, interestingly, "Green Destiny." He is prepared to retire and lead a peaceful life until the sword is stolen. The villain wants to use it for evil. This leads Li and Yu on a quest to find and reclaim "Green Destiny" while giving Li another chance to finally avenge his master's death and teaching Li and Yu the strength and value of their love.

Parallel to this, "destiny" has forced Max to accept his role as king. But Liz and Max's destiny was stolen from them in a sense. I think Max and Tess' supposed destiny is being used to advance evil plots by the villain(s) of Roswell. However, the quests Liz and Max are on will lead them to reclaim their true destiny, allow them to avenge Alex's death, and remind them of the strength and value of their love.

Also at the core of the story is the conflict between Yu and Jen, a girl who shares some striking similarities with Tess. I expect the conflict between Liz and Tess will come to a head soon. Jen is very powerful and temperamental. She is an aristocrat. She is leading a double life and Yu is the first person to suspect that (Liz's distrust of Tess). Yu fights with her head and is incredibly dignified, while Jen is driven by her emotions, temper, and pride. Most significantly Jen, like Tess, has been influenced by an evil mentor and whether she will use her own power for good or bad is key to all of their fates.

There are definitely some differences. Jen is unhappily bethrothed to one man but in love with another and she hates the aristrocratic oppressed destiny that awaits her. Actually a lot of that sounds like Max's situation and I think it's telling that he would love a movie like this. The themes central to the film are parallel to Roswell.

There are so many twists and turns in the movie that I won't give away but I highly recommend seeing it. It's an awe-inspiring film and I'm excited to see how much Roswell will follow it in the next few episodes.

If one of the aliens had touched the blood, they might have gotten a flash; but Liz only gets (got?) flashes from people.

I did say half-expecting a flash It was just the way she touched it, I think. We did see the windshield, though, and it appeared to be blood-free though wickedly cracked & broken. Shouldn't there have been blood there too?

Meta Thx for draging over your post; it's nice to have back up
~Tas

-after Alex says "Why does everything have to be a lie?" to the delivery boy, the next shot is Alex in his room, and he picks up the photo of him & Lianna. The one we previously speculated looked manufactured.

-the movie chat: love, honour, duty; illusion, reality, gunfire. I think these are the themes for the remainder of the season of Roswell.

-Sean's call to the DeLucas' was strange. It did seem like he could be in court-the guy behind him had a hat that looks like Valenti's, plus Sean was wearing a suit, which is something you do for court usually. But the look on his face and the way he said, "What? How?" just totally rang a bell for me. It sounded like he was thinking, that wasn't supposed to happen, or even, how did they get to/know about Alex? I may be getting overly paranoid here, but I really found that whole little interlude suspicious. Even the fact that it was included was kind of suspicious-they didn't need to show Sean for us to know that he was in Albuquerque for some court thing, that could have been covered in the Amy/Michael conversation.

-in the school hallway, Liz says to Maria, "Just keep moving forward. Keep breathing." Again, breathing is mentioned, with the implication that Liz is breathing and moving forward herself.

-did anyone else notice that Liz hardly touched her mac&cheese? The bowl was nearly full when she left. As for what she said, it was kind of abrupt, but I think it was realistic in that she's obviously very upset about what she saw at prom. Despite what she says to Max. I think he knows it too, which is why he just said OK and didn't push it. Also, Ist42 posted on Cherishing that according to dictionary.com, macaroni was eaten as a funeral feast. I'm going to guess that, combined with Max's complete lack of culinary skills, is why he offered her frozen mac&cheese.

I'll have more later; I've got at least one more post's worth!
~Tas

Tas About Liz not knowing that Iz is planning to leave. I think that if she had found out about it then she would have felt obligated (what else is new ) to stop in her tracks and deal with it. She would have had to reveal everything, but she's on a mission that can't be interrupted. She needs to solve this mystery known as Alex's death. She'd have too many balls in the air. The poor girl can only try to solve so many things at once

Roxy

I hate to change the subject a bit, but it has been on my mind. All courtesy of GRACEKEL, who pointed out the similarities of the names-- Doug Shellow and Sean Deluca, has gotten me to think about these two characters.

Remember in BD, Shellow made some kind of comment on how "all the girls in the archaeology department have their own vision quest 24 hours of the day. . . it kind of gets tiresome -- but you're different" (or something like that). I allways found it odd that he could relate his feelings in a way as Liz was feeling. something like Sean

I'm not sure about this character, Sean, but I'm starting to lean towards him as being someone who is trying to "help" Liz with her growing!! He may not be full-heartedly trying to keep Max & Liz apart, but trying to get her to branch off and expand her powers. He seems to be trying to "heal" her by telling her she is suffocating - she needs space!!

Getting back to Shellow - he too may have been trying to encourage her to "grow" by asking if she was thinking of college. Could these two characters (DS & SD) be one of the same???

All I know is that Liz seems to trust him!! That makes me think I should too.

ONE MORE NOTE: remember how Liz walked into the Crashdown to meet DS - she really couldn't take her eyes off of him!! just like Sean's appearance

I don't know how to edit my post, but I just wanted to say that I am a 100%, complete DREAMER!! I think my "message" came off in the wrong light!!

I actually feel that SD may not have any "romantic" feelings for Liz. He just wants to advance/enhance Liz's abilities -- IMHO, of course. The cementing (that FMax claimed that he and Liz were inseparable) probably ceased Liz's growth. (IMO) SD may just be trying to prevent this from happening!!

So here my thoughts.
Fav scene: When they are watching the van and Maria puts her head Liz'a shoulder and Liz holds her head. I could really feel Liz's determination to be strong. it!!

Tess: who does she think she is. "Max go after her". Like it was an order. I am glad that Max waited for Liz. He would have gone to Liz if Tess hadn't butted in.

Alex has been brainwashed, I think. This would account for his mood swings. Like Alex was there, but not all the way there. Silverhandprint and crashdown hinted to the code about three weeks ago. A tag line on the gazette at SH read
"All the news that is fit to read"
At Crashdown is was,
"All the news that's fit to code"
cool huh?

I thought about Michael's loyalty. He follows Max, but who is Max following? It made me think that Courtney's comment about his loyalty cost him everything because he trusted Max who trusted the wrong people (Tess). Now I will link that to the CTHD and Matrix comparison. Max is saying that Love honor and duty are very important and Michael is saying the only matter if the object of you love, honor , or duty is real and not an illusion.
I think Liz reference to the poem is that Alex not only left a clue with the tickets but he marked that poem on purppose. When Liz saw the code she knew that. Could the code be long. and lat? Initials or an abbr.?

Ok I must vent about a line in HOM:
Tess to Max: you look sad?
Max: I think that it is really over.
Tess: Um you mean with Liz?
PLease don't be coy Tess, it is not you strongsuit!! GRRR. Um DUH Who else would max be broken up about?
Whew, thanks I need to get that out.
The promo makes me want to gag.

Zara I think Alex looked pale in those last pictures because he was wearing a lot of black.

Also wondering why there wasn't a heck of a lot more blood in that car. I mean, even if Alex was dead before he got in that car, wouldn't there still have been blood? So, I'm wondering, was that really Alex, or an alien shapeshifted into Alex?

For the moment, because Liz trusts him, and because he doesn't give me the creeps, I find myself leaning to the Sean as a good guy theory, possibly even as a protector. That phone conversation with Sean and Michael was definitely important, and not just to make Sean appear to be a good guy by looking out for his family.

I have been lurking for some time now..but thought that this might interest some of you. The binary digits give you the number 936409 if read right to left (the proper way)or the number 637223 if read left to right. I hope this was the proper place to put this info.. If not my apologies .. This is my first post hope this goes up correctly
very nervous that it wont.

just bought this over because i thought it might aid some of you myth's trying to crack the code....
egh.. its worth a try

bex

Thanks Roswell honey! Good catch on the right to left.

when isabel leaves and max is stuck, not knowing what to do, it's almost like he's a puppet until tess tells him to go after her. and if max is definitely being mind warped, he seems to fight it, until liz tells max to go after tess. i sort of didn't like liz's tone to that but now, i can understand why. max should be able to make up his mind and max doing something upon what tess is telling him, put liz over the edge. max had never done that before (at not from what i can recall).

definitely a lot of "cold". alex's food was cold, his rant to the delivery guy was almost "cold-like" in that he seemed detached. like he was having an inner battle. max touching alex's body and being cold that he almost didn't want to touch him. i think that the reason that max could not heal alex was that he was dead for some time. liz and kyle were almost dead. nacedo came back the first time b/c of the healing stones, but not the second time, b/c it was the first time max was trying to revive an alien w/o the stones. alex must have been dead for a couple of hours b/4 max would attempt to revive him..... unless the healing stones could work on alex (i don't know).

lots of foreshadowing, liz and maria telling alex to be strong. maybe that alex should be strong in fighting whatever inner demons he's battling... but starts to lose it as evident in his rant to the delivery guy. cold... as in death and didn't alex eat his food "cold" at the end of wipeout? max's sense of detachment and contradicting support of valenti, of liz, of alex. it's like he can't make up his mind. when max was saying in the lines that he almost didn't want to touch alex, could tess be mind warping max into fearing a dead alex, thus, max really doesn't touch alex and attempt to heal him?

frost's passage, in that many miles to go.... maybe meaning that there are many more things that have to be searched to get the answer.
we see liz against the odds, again. what liz is up against and what she would lose as seen in teotw, and she's alone again... going on the limb of alex being murdered, esp since the majority think she's nuts. she was alone when everyone left the coroner's van and she's alone investigating.

i'm just speculating.

Yes! I also got a weird feeling when these dream conversations were going on, like maybe Isabel is more perceptive than she realizes. My theory is (based on the fact that "dream" Alex never mentions his "death")that maybe Alex is alive somewhere as a hostage and is being drugged. Isabel, grief-stricken and asleep, contacts Alex without even realizing it. Course I have no idea why he then didn't scream for help, but it's a theory in progress . Just pointing out that I too thought something was up with the dreams.

First and foremost – welcome to all the newbies and lurkers who have been joining in on the discussions recently! You’re always welcome!

I re-watched the episode a couple of times – once with closed caption on. And below are my observations, many that have already been mentioned. I’ve already posted – on the last thread – my gut reaction after the first showing, and also lyrics of songs that I thought were relevant, but I have a few more to add.

My first observation is more a challenge of an assumption that I believe most of us suffer under. We have always assumed the aliens to be superior in strength, etc., due to their powers, etc. – BUT WHAT IF the aliens were sent to Earth, in human form, because somehow humans have superior qualities that the home planet hoped to bestow on the Royalty – and give them a second chance to get things correct!?! Though we have had discussions on the edge of this topic, I don’t think we have ever considered that Humanity might be superior in any way to the aliens. This thought came to me based on something Brainchick said – what if Liz’s retching was her body’s attempt to fight off the mindwarping. I then noticed that when Liz s she grabs her head first, then her stomach. Usually, when one goes to throw-up, they grab their stomach or mouth – not their forehead. BUT if someone was trying to get into your head – you would grab your head! Then, she immediately thinks to go to Max. We have always thought that Liz has superior qualities and abilities – some barely tapped into and not even known to herself. I believe her intuition is very well-developed and to be trusted! I’m not sure where I’m going with this, but … I just thought I would bring it up for the ingenious people of this thread to mull over and comment on!

Now to what I observed.

Someone mentioned this, but I went back to see what the title of the debate topic was in Viva Las Vegas – “Space Travel: Wave of the Future or Misbegotten Deal?” Okay – is this foreshadowing or what? It appears to me that if they are headed home (space travel) – it will be a misbegotten deal at best!

Also, in Heart of Mine – someone had mentioned there was no music when Tess and Max were sitting on his bed, practicing memory retrieval; however, there is music playing – it changes from one tune that plays while Maria complains in the car to Liz, to a sort of “Twilight Zone” song that plays as Liz heads towards Max’s window and sees M&T hugging. I thought it appropriate given that she must feel she is in a sort of Twilight Zone currently with all the events that have occurred recently.

Now to Cry Your Name! Did I say I loved this episode? Okay – I did, but watching it again – it is loaded full of stuff to just enjoy (okay – no I don’t enjoy the M/T stuff , but it is well written) and lots of stuff to observe and dissect.

Liz and Maria telling Alex to stay strong seems to end up coming back to them! Now it is their time to “stay strong” for their dear friend – because the truth is out there to be found! Now Alex seemed fine until the cold (thai?) food showed up! I wonder what it was that sent him off? And now it raises the question of what went on in Sweden? Was he possessed while there? Was his trip really a cover for prepping him for possession? How long has this gone on? Does it date back to Wipeout? I guess we will have to wait to find out, but here is what we know –
1. Alex said: “So sick of this. Always the same thing. So sick of everything! Why does life have to be so wrong? Hy does everything have to be a lie?”
2. The sticker below the picture does day “Everyman” with “working class” and “Rock & Roll” under the word.
3. Alex looks at the picture – then takes it down – then we hear the static noise similar to when Liz disappears in Wipeout! I realize we jump to Valenti driving in his car with the radio on, but I believe the similar noise was deliberate, and not just Foley artists with little creativity. I’ve always wondered WHY? the noise when Liz disappears was different than the other disappearances.
4. Alex – or someone – cuts Alex’s image out of the picture. ???
5. We do not know where Alex was going? Why would he be on the interstate if he was just going to Iz’s or the Crashdown? To me this implies that he was headed elsewhere – but where, and with the image less his head in the car.
6. I agree with whomever stated that there seemed to be too little blood in Alex’s car! I can see why the seat belt would have residual blood that would then be rubbed off on the seat, but where was the rest of the blood. From Max’s attempt at healing – and I do believe he tried, but Alex was to far gone to be healed – and the condition of the car, there should have been blood all over – especially since it appears that Alex was not removed from the car immediately. Remember, Valenti bend down to look into the turned over car. The lack of blood could be a CHAD, but it could be an indication of something else – like Alex was not all there to begin with. I wonder what they would find if the exhumed the body after a few days? Decaying corpse or ashes? Umm….
7. Alex’s room – untouched according to his dad - included a picture of a group of people in the place where the defaced picture had been. Also, the food had NOT been touched, and the coke was still there. WHAT had he done during that time between Liz and Maria leaving – late afternoon – and the crash – evening/night?
8. There is a crucifix on the wall next to Alex’s front door.
9. Alex is buried on the top of a mountain, and one of the songs has a passage about a girl going to a mountain top looking out over the sea. Can’t remember – but someone else I bet will remember it?
10. The clues do not lead to suicide. Unfortunately, I know more about suicide than one wants to due to having lost two friends to it – one recently. Now, neither was a teenage suicide – so I claim no expertise there – but the signs are much more noticeable than that, and the depression more evident. Liz and Maria would have noticed something in his character if he was close to suicide, and I agree – people do not make plans for the future when they plan to kill themselves. They have a very different mindset.
11. Lots of windows at Alex’s house had diamond designs!
12. Ticket – Section 0422, Seat C13, Date 5/5 at 7:30PM, Cost $35 dollars! Lots of our numbers on that ticket!
13. Iz’s dreams of Alex were interesting – and many have pointed out what Alex says – but notice the lyrics of the song in the background. It talks about crossing over a line, and ends with “That you’ll meet in time.” I think this is foreshadowing that Alex may not truly be dead! Okay – I’m reaching here, but … Of course, we will never know if we don’t get a season 3!

Other observations –
1. Movie discussion was very interesting! Some have already discussed it, but I have to had my 2 cents! (Don’t read if you don’t want to be spoiled a bit about these movies.) “Matrix” – a movie I’ve seen numerous times and is great to watch on DVD BTW – is about a person who does not know he is the chosen messiah to save humans from artificial intelligence machines that have taken over the Earth and use humans to generate energy. The humans are kept in a state of suspended animation, fed artificial thoughts and memories to make them “think” they are actually living a life – complete and ultimate Illusion – all the while there “energy” is used to run the machines. Nero – who is the chosen one – is a computer genius who is – unknown to himself at first – able to out-think the “Matrix,” the computer program the runs things in the “artificial” world that humans live in. There is a group of “rebels” that live on Earth – the old fashion way (and Earth is a pretty desolate place right now) – are trying to destroy the artificial intelligence machines. There is a prophecy that one of the Rebel women will fall in love with the chosen one, and well … you should rent the movie. When Mikey G says that the movie is about Illusion, Reality and Gunfire – he is actuate, but it is also about prophecy, discovering ones purposes and abilities, survival of the human race and more. There are a lot of parallels with Roswell if our theories regarding Liz’s importance are true! Now, “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” – is also about Love, Honor and Duty, but it also is about Illusion, Deception, and so much more. It involves someone living a life that is a lie. Again – there are many parallels with Roswell – though I believe less than the Matrix. Now – it was interesting to me that Max chose CT,HD because though he discusses the Love, Honor and Duty – which I read into being his “Destiny” choice – I read into a Hidden Dragon that, even when given a second chance to use her powers for good, drives a wedge between true love through her deception – that results in tragedy. Mikey G’s choice of movie has more parallels to our story, and a better out-come with a “happy” ending. I believe Ron Moore picked these movies deliberately to communicate something to us! They are both based on illusion and deception! And we suspect that Illusion is involved with the current storyline, and I believe this is his way of cluing us in that we are right!
2. When Max goes into the Van to heal Alex, he is bathed in diamond shadows. As I said before, I do believe that Max tried to heal Alex, but couldn’t because Alex was too far gone – but I also believe that Max emerging with blood on his hand was to convey to us that Ultimately Liz will be right, and Max will have Alex’s blood on his hands.
3. Liz in this scene appears to be on auto-pilot – her mom interprets her behavior as being in denial – but I believe her instincts have taken over – she knows something is not right from the beginning – and as Grandma Claudia said in season 1 – she is following her heart (aka instincts) no matter where it leads her. Her determination to get to the truth is incredible. We should all have a friend like Liz if tragedy befalls us. When she “talks” to Alex in his room at the wake – I feel like his spirit is there with her, leading her to the tickets! Then the credit card receipt – I don’t know what it means, or where it will lead, but it is like Alex is reaching back from the grave to Liz, and she knows it. If anyone could figure out the “code” – Liz can! When she touched the car seat – I would have loved it if she got a flash! But – still I believe she “felt” something – that will push her on to find the truth. When she said “nothing is ever what it seems” – it reminded me of what Harding/Max said to her at the carnival while they played the “shells” – I can’t remember the quote, but it was something to the same effect. I loved what she said to Maria and Kyle after the aliens walked out – “I know what I know, and I’m going to find out the truth. I owe that … to my friend!” You go girl!
4. Kyle was wonderful in this episode! Poor guy has been messed with – I believe – emotionally and mentally by Tess, and now a recently developed good friend (I think he and Alex really bonded in the Gandarium hive) dies the day before his 18th? Birthday! Liz has been through an emotional trip this year, and so has Kyle!
5. Loved how Max was taken aback by Liz’s mom answering the phone “Sean?”
6. Iz’s mom did double take a bit on the “Special Powers don’t work either” comment. She has to have a clue??
7. When Liz walks into the school the day after the death there is a large “Try” sign on the School wall.
8. When Liz goes to Max’s because she did not want to be alone, it reminded me of when Max went to Liz’s in ARCC re: the ghost, etc. It was a very touching scene until Max callously brings up the Prom! I’ve already ranted on that – but I think that his response to her comments were weird for someone that has often professed his love for Liz! But I’m glad Max Knows Liz saw him kiss Tess ! And Liz’s follow-up – “Just always be my friend, will you do that Max?” (Max – “You know I will.”) combined with the preview by the car and the confrontation at the wake – foreshadows that they will be anything BUT friends for some time to come! It will be hard to watch. I just hope the damage isn’t permanent, and I’m going to be soooo up-set if they resolve this whole thing in the last minute of the finale leaving us hanging with a kiss and a hug – and then get cancelled leaving us without any true quality Max/Liz air time! I want a Season 3 to watch Max and Liz work together along with the Scooby Gang as a team!! Okay – I’m getting way ahead of myself, but I’m reading a lot into everything right now!
9. Tess was way too quick to jump to the support of the suicide theory! Here’s to Maria for telling her where to go!
10. Don’t the aliens wonder HOW live knows so much?? They through it back in Liz’s face that she doesn’t know anything about their world or Kivar, but Iz herself in her dream admits she thinks there is a connection. I believe Iz will be the first to come to her senses and support Liz’s efforts – or maybe Mikey G! Though – as Kyle says – It is “us vs. them” – I think one of the aliens will come to their senses and support Liz – I just don’t know who it will be.
11. When Liz is going through the pictures and having flashbacks about Alex, one of the flashbacks is of Alex hugging her close at the UFO Center, and in the background is “Trust no one” – umm….?

Sorry this is so long! I haven’t read what others have written on the new thread – so I’m sorry if I repeat what others have observed. But I wanted to get all my thoughts out. Now I can sleep!

Zero
I Shall (try to continue to) Believe!
The Truth Is Out There!

But I uploaded the new dates to the Long Intro, Zero. I had to use a where you wanted a until I save and upload the throw up one.

Will do more tomorrow, definitely on the weekend.

I'm guessing that if Roswell is renewed Alex will make guest appearances from another dimension/time warp, similar to the book Alex.

Liz wretching seems like an attack.

I know I said this before, and some of you are speaking along these lines, but I do think the gand is stuck in an alternate time. Now that I'm thinking this way one of the things about this season that really creeps me out is seeing people's relections in the mirror. NOW it's almost like there's another world on the other side of the mirrors. (Perhaps not literally, but I think the use of mirrors is used to symbolize connection to the other time planes.)

It would be interesting to compile a list of key mirror scenes:

Max to the Max! (what great foreshadowing!)

Liz w/antennas and Max after NY in her room

Liz in ARCC straightening out the pink v-neck sweater set

A huge piece of relfective glass about to drop on Max's head in MITC - Liz calls to him but we can't hear her - we thought it was because she was unskilled in her powers but it might have to do with time as well.

OMG, Niko picking his face in the mirror at the Crashdown in Wipeout

Courtney peeling off a layer of skin in the Crashdown bathroom mirror in Harvest

Sean reflected in the Crashdown kitchen mirror when Alex comes back from Sweden in TSAP(this has always seemed odd to me)

Max in this episode as he tries his suit on and Liz comes to the window

In Wipeout the missing mirror in the Jetta

In HOM Sean's missing ext. rearview

In HOM, the Sean's interior rear-view is turned toward Liz, even when they're driving down the road!

Zara
be strong, breathe shallow, time will tell!

Connie

Now - about the "going home" promo. We dont know WHY they decide to go home - but take a trip down memory lane to this little bit of dialouge.
LONNIE: Miss me?
NICHOLAS: Always. Can't wait to see more of you.
LONNIE: Well, that'll have to wait until we get home.
NICHOLAS: Let's be clear, Lonnie. You don't get home unless I get the granilith.
LONNIE: Let me be clear, Nicholas. I don't give a damn whether or not you get the granilith. I'm going home.
NICHOLAS: Big talk for a woman with no cards to play.
LONNIE: I got cards. I just haven't shown them to you yet. You know, I'm not like the others. I remember our world. I remember Kivar. And I remember what it was like to be Vilandra. I want that life, and I'll do what I have to to get back. Be on my side, and you'll benefit. Be against me, and...well, it would be a mad, crazy idea to be against me. Don't worry about Max. He's a cornball. He'll go for the deal. He'll go for the deal because millions of lives hang in the balance. Besides, he wants to go home and give mommy a kiss and get fitted for his crown.

The scene goes on to say that if they DO go home - Max is going to get greeted with an execution.

Whatever causes the podsters to decide the need to go home (let me guess - might it be - TESS???????) - dont forget this dialouge and remember going home = death for the podsters.
Also - remember that Lonnie has a plan for getting home with or without the summit...... AND she seems awfully confident of herself..............

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Yep! We sure do have to assume a lot of things! Thanks for responding, Tasfya! (Off topic- I really like your Forging a Lifebond story!) I thought they looked a lot like a team as well. I t was nice to see them all conversing and laughing like "normal" teens.

Just wanted to add that I think that is what Liz most likes about Sean. He represents a more normal existence. She can do silly teen things like dancing in a bowling alley. She was willing to give that all up for Max. But in a way I think she is realizing that Max doesn't deserve that right now. Riverdog said it best when he warned her that she should be sure that Max is worthy of her trust. Liz has grown, now she is waiting for Max to grow. But, she's not going to just sit around. I think that speaks very highly of her. Very strong. AND, I don't think the wait will be for nothing. Just my Very Humble Opinion!!!

Just a thought that was rolling around in my head. Still getting caught up on page one and didn't want to forget it!

The other dreams that we have been shown this season have been disjointed, only partly based in reality, and quite obviously dreams. Think back to Liz's dream with Brad, Max and petals from heaven. Think back to Kyle's dream with Buddha, the "beeper", and his morphing alien hand. Think back to Isabel's "dream" (still up for debate on that one) in the woods with Laurie being dragged in a body bag, the mysterious character, etc. Did either of her dreams with Alex bear even the slightest resemblance to the previous dreams in this season? Not really! They were very realistic, as if they could have been happening at that moment. I think that just adds to the "evidence" already compiled against the idea that Alex is really dead.

Donna : I agree with you! I think we are saying the exact same thing . I start singing that 50's song everytime I see your name now , "ohhh Dooonna,..ohhh DOnnnnaaa"

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
...when he was talking with Tess under the bleachers he was on the verge of confessing that he couldnt bring himself to "connect" with the dead body. But maybe he did. Either way - Zero is right - he does have symbolic "blood" on his hands.

I just wanted to post something my friend Jessi/BSR said in another thread that seems to make a lot of sense on why Max could not heal Alex...I think she's dead on right

quote:BehrSkinRug:[b]
I have an idea on why Max couldn't heal Alex but it may but a stupid odea. Here goes: Remember when Nasedo was killed by a skin/alien and Max couldn't heal him for some reason, maybe this proves that Alex was killed by an alien and thats why Max couldn't heal him. Whomever or whatever killed Alex killed him in the car right before the crash, and the crash was made to cover it up so the "good aliens" (Max, Iz, and Michael) (notice I left out Tess!) wouldn't suspect anything. What do you think?

What do you guys think? I think thats very plausible.

Re: Binary code I still strongly believe that is just how Khivar's name is spelled out in letter code . Maybe he is used to signing a lot of stuff so he just signed it Khivar automatically .

Connie

I think you're DEFINITELY on to something here! What? I don't know yet, but something!

ITA *HIGH FIVE* Alexis . I totally prefer this type of storywriting more as well. It does feel more season 1ish. I don't think she decifered it either.

Fehrgame I'll tell her you think she's right too. Its so logical . Here we are getting all crazy with energy explanations when things are just simple . Still might be energy related though ...

Connie

I thought about this last week and posted something about it without a response from anyone, so I started thinking more and more about it. After watching CYN, I have to second guess myself. Max said there was "so much blood, I didn't want to touch him". So much blood? Now, we don't have a lot of history with alien-killings, BUT I can't remember too many people dying with "lots of blood" from an alien, can you guys? They seem like much "neater" killers. I mean, Edsedo just sort of shrivelled and *poof be goned* - no mess at all, except for a little vaccumming.

Then again, it COULD be that Khivar was some how possessing Alex and made him kill himself (hence the suicide theory) and in the struggle between and Alex and Khivar (internally), there was much more havic/blood than a "typical death"? Whatcha think?

Then again, it COULD be that Khivar was some how possessing Alex and made him kill himself (hence the suicide theory) and in the struggle between and Alex and Khivar (internally), there was much more havic/blood than a "typical death"? Whatcha think?

Thing is, it doesn't have to be Alex's blood. If he was killed by a Skin, then it was set up so that it looked like a car crash, they could have covered him with pig's blood or something from a butcher. Or even (much as I hate to even go here) mutilated his body after killing him so that his wounds were consistent with a crash. I think Alex must have been dead before the crash, b/c I don't think that enough time had lapsed for his body to be as cold as Max was describing it to be. Valenti did his best to get Max to the body as quickly as possible; it was only a couple of hours. The body would not have been warm by any means, but it shouldn't have been ice cold yet either.

I'm not sure why Max couldn't heal Alex, but I am positive that he tried. My main reason for this is that when he returns to the group, he seems to be Max, not SMax. His first thought is for Liz; he doesn't even notice Tess is talking to him. Theorizing:

-when Liz talks about Max, the things she says are reflective of the Max we know &
-when Max is alone with Liz, he seems to be Max (prom comment notwithstanding--even our Max can be an idiot! Remember telling Liz he got flashes from kissing Tes in TLV? Ouch!)
-when Tess is present, SMax makes an appearance. The one exception is right after the failed healing, and I'm willing to bet that it's b/c Max felt responsible and needed to make sure Liz was OK.

We're seeing a pattern. Liz says Max is honourable; Max kisses Tess. Max tells Liz he'll handle the situation with Valenti (suicide call); he backs down and cites the evidence in the file. Max promises Liz that he'll always be her friend; in the promo, he says that if she goes their friendship is over. Note that in each instance, the Max incident occurs before the SMax incident. It's like the Puppet Master is performing reverse damage control for Max's actions. I am 110% convinced that Max is being controlled, but I'm not sure it's by Tess. Or by just Tess. Tess is either in cahoots with the Puppet Master (I don't think she has enough power to pull it of by herself--unless it isn't Tess anymore), or she is being used as a tool to break Max.

More thoughts later
~Tas

I think so too. She is not reading the code yet. Just the existence of the coded message confirms her belief that something is up that needs looking into -- she feels that she owes that to her friend. She quotes the poem because it's a poem about obligation.

I'd love to hear if anyone agress or not.

Also, from the last thread, what if Sean is Tic- tac or MaxCedo? Could be a protector of some kind.

aldebaran I think they've only shown 2 dining chairs at the Valenti's since ARCC. There is another type of chair, that used to sit by the front door, but there are still just 2 dining chairs

Zero ITA that Max did try to heal Alex and failed, for whatever reason. But I believe his death was alien-related, which means that Max does have his blood on his hands. Sucks to be the King. Also, what Nasedo said in MTTM was, "Don't believe everything you see." Correlates very nicely with Liz's, "Nothing is ever what it seems."

As for Liz retching outside the Valenti's house: I don't think there was anything otherworldy about it. I think she clutched her head first b/c she got dizzy, which induced nausea. She hadn't eaten in over 24 hours, and she'd just been told that her best friend's death was going to be declared a suicide when she knows it isn't true. It happened there b/c she'd just come from the Valenti's, and I think she looked around like that afterwards b/c the retching was a loss of control, something she does not want anyone to see. She went to Max after b/c of the simple fact that she felt like she was losing control. She needed to vent, she needed him to say he'd run interference with Valenti. It's for the same reason that she called Max from the hospital when GC had her stroke: she listened to her heart, and it said that she needed to see Max
~Tas

-Liz at least should have known that it was Kyle's birthday, but no one else ever mentioned it. What a crappy way to spend your 18th birthday!

-Kyle needs to tell everyone, esp. Isabel, what Alex said to him in the Gandarium cave. The hybrids need to know that Alex would not be sorry to have died fighting their cause.

-Jim Valenti seems to accept that Max had the right to yell at him, and demand an explanation. In spite of the age difference, it's clear that Valenti sees Max as the leader too. Also, at the morgue in the beginning, Valenti goes to get the van drivers out of the way when Max nods at him; another sign of this deference. He shows the same deference to Liz when she confronts him with the mutilated photo. Slightly OT: when Liz said, "Cut the crap and tell me what the photo means to you!" she emphasized the "f" sound in "photo." I swear, I thought she was going to say, "Cut the crap and tell me what the f*** is going on!" That wouldn't really have been out of place either, but it would have had to be censored, so…

-about Alex using a credit card to pay for the Thai food. Some people have said that must mean he's already 18; not necessarily. I used to do that with my parents' credit card and sign for it myself (lucky me, I have the exact same initials as my father!).

-when Liz goes into Alex's room, the Coke can and the food bag are still sitting out, and the photo in the frame is a group shot now (can't really see of whom/where, though I'd assume a prom shot). Alex obviously left suddenly, without eating his cold dinner, and with the pic of him and Lianna. Did he cut up the pic before leaving, or did he do that in the car? Or did someone else do it altogether?

-Valenti may not officially be the sheriff anymore, but he has apparently reestablished trust with the force. Hansen didn't have to call him in, and Valenti did a good bit of the investigating (i.e., interviewing the delivery boy) that he technically should not have been doing. I think this bodes well for his eventual reinstatement as Sheriff.

-not only has Liz's hair returned to its usual smoothness, but the vine coat is nowhere to be seen! Instead she was wearing a new coat (for her). A much more grown up style of coat, too, kind of like a British trench coat (it looked like something you would buy at Burberry's).

-generally speaking, when the cause of death is as obvious as Alex's seems to be, an autopsy is not done. I'm wondering if Valenti will ask them to do one anyway, or if he can even. I'm fairly sure Liz would want one done.

Whew, I think that's it! Until I watch it again, anyway
~Tas

11100100100111011001 breaks into:

1110 = E
0100 = 4
1001 = 9
1101 = D
1001 = 9

So, E49D9? Doesn't mean anything to me - anyone else!?

To me too, this looks like the most promising way to start. [For many years it has been common to organize long binary words into 8-bit bytes and to write these as two hex characters embodying 4 bits each. So this is how Alex would think.] Several of us got this far independently, confirming my belief that this is the natural approach and we are on the right track.

On the Science Fiction thread, Hooked took the next steps -- reading the 5 hex characters as 3 bytes (supplying a leading zero, as usual when that is not given):

[0]E 49 D9

and looking those up in the extended ASCII character table

0E = shift
49 = I
D9 = "U-grave", i.e U with accent ` above it.

To me this looks very intriguing. Could it fit with speculations that Alex was not Alex -- someone has done a "shift"? (As Hooked also suggested) Is that the symbolism of the removed face from the photograph?

Here's the link to the original post by Hooked. http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/006969.html

I have considered the possibility that Alex did kill himself, but not for the reasons one might think. Let me explain, what if Alex was being controlled (by Kivar?) and began to realize something wasn't right. (think Grant)Maybe he found a way to fight back from the possesion, and in the struggle for his mind he knew it had to end, FOR THE SAFETY OF THE OTHERS. Just a thought....

As for Max not being able to heal Alex. When Max has healed in the past the person was ALIVE. ALex was already dead. There is a BIG difference between alive and already dead. Once the body has released the soul(or essence of life) it can't be retrieved. I think Max tried.

I think Alex is really dead, why?, because I have read that Colin Hanks has signed on for a couple more movies. My guess, he chose to NOT sign on again next year(if there is a next year) and they had to write him out. I hope I am wrong....

~Sheri
I wanna be Liz when I grow up....

Notofthisearth ~ I thought that the binary code might correspond with the rhyming meter of the poem when I first saw it too, but after researching it, I realized that it doesn't. The Rhyming meter of the poem is AABA BBCB CCDC DDDD and the code is 11100100100111011001. That's a cool idea, but I guess it's back to the drawing board. I'm thinking that it probably is a code that can only be cracked within the realm of Roswell. (as someone else stated b4)

About the blood in the car ~ When I saw that blood, I thought that was really odd as well. I mean, the car was flipped upside down and the windshield was smashed in toward the driver side. Alex is a tall guy. Not to be gross or anything,but he would've been hit in the head by that thing... and everyone knows how much a head wound bleeds! There would be a LOT more blood on that seat and the windshield and everywhere! The location of the blood on the seat is suspicious as well. That blood was on the seat where Alex's right shoulder would've rested. The seat belt goes over the left shoulder on the driver's side, so it couldn't have been the seatbelt cutting him that caused that blood. In fact, I immediately thought that it looked like the kind of blood stain that would've come from a gunshot to the shoulder or something. (Okay, I've seen too many shoot-'em-up movies...but seriously!)

One more thing then I'll quit. I was really starting to fall into the accepting of Tess, but after seeing the promo for next week with Tess saying, "I'll be with you for eternity." Or whatever she said... I just wanted to ! That was just too much to take!

Anywayz, I'm done...for now.

Roswellrox

Wow that's a GREAT idea! Quick someone write the code on a piece of paper and place is over the poem and see if you can comme up with anything!

I think the poem is urging Liz not to give up. To try and figure out what happened to Alex.

quote:Originally posted by ????:
Max made mention of the Spanish teacher (didn’t quite catch his name -Senor Ravia??). That was the second EOTW reference in this ep.

The teacher's name is Sra Villa. She was a chaperone at the prom.

And I think Kyle is only 17. I think Tess wrote on their prom cards that they were class of '02, which would make them 17. My brother is 17 and he's class of 02. But who knows if the TV World is consistent with real world! Remember 90210? They were in high school FOREVER!

Sorry this so long, and not to much about Liz' but I just love this thread and all the ideas about eveything.

Chicatron

The observation I had (and pardon me if it's repetative) is that with the group at odds with each other (Reference Kyle's "Them vs.Us line), the time is ripe for their enemies to take over."Divide and Conquer" came to mind immediately after viewing the arguement scene in Alex's room. With everyone's emotions overruling their reasoning abilities, the group is off balance and open to attack. It will be interesting to see where this is all leading.
Like I said, just an observation....

{edited due to lack of spelling ability today}

Well, I was thinking about this and it doesn't seem logical that anyone would have done anything to Alex's body -- if they used pigs blood or something or mutilated his body to make it look like a crash, there would be a good chance this would be discovered by the coroners at the morgue. Too risky. Also, a dead body gets cold rather quickly. I'm sure it took them at least a couple of hours to clear out the crash...and get Alex where he was going. The car was overturned and smushed and I imagine that they would'vd had to manuever him out of there... In any case, when you touch a body that is dead, even one that has recently died, you do notice the cold. It's not like when you touch it it's ice cold, but it's something that is definitely palpable and disturbing. I held my mom a few minutes after she passed away and I noticed it.

And I do believe Max couldn't save Alex because he was already dead. Period. He can heal people by manipulating the molecular structure of things, but he can't bring them back from the grave -- as evidenced by Grandma Claudia. Manipulating Alex's molecular structure wouldn't have brought him back...he was already gone. And I don't think the healing stones would work on Alex because they contain 'The Balance' which was the energy inside of Nasedo, and it was this balance that was interrupted - thus killing him. The Stones helped to restore the balance, thus bringing Nasedo back to life.

{~}:}

Also, from the last thread, what if Sean is Tic- tac or MaxCedo? Could be a protector of some kind.

I posted a theory about this as well a few threads back. It is my belief that Serena is going to end up being the other Shapeshifter...TicTac. Keeping this in mind, I believe that it was Nasedo's job to 'protect' them and Serena's job to 'teach' them. Remember how Nasedo didn't know how to activate the Orbs and he stated that it wasn't his job to lead them, but to 'protect' them. I believe that the podsters were sent to earth with four glowies who each had a different responsiblity... One protector and one teacher for each set of pods. However, since two of the glowies died in the crash, they had to make due with what was left. The NY podsters seem to have a lot more information about their home, which makes me believe even more that Serena is their protector.

I believe that Serena has made numerous appearances in Roswell (this is how the NY group got the yearbook).. In any case, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Sean Deluca turned out to actually BE Serena. And if not, I still think Serena will make her presence known sooner or later.

Anyhow, that was some of my theory revisited.

{~}:}

I have been lurking for some time now..but thought that this might interest some of you. The binary digits give you the number 936409 if read right to left (the proper way)or the number 637223 if read left to right. I hope this was the proper place to put this info.. If not my apologies .. This is my first post hope this goes up correctly
very nervous that it wont.

just bought this over because i thought it might aid some of you myth's trying to crack the code....
egh.. its worth a try

bex

Hi everyone! OK, I know nothing about binary code, so I find the translations fascinating! About these, both numbers add up to numbers that are very familiar to us--9+3+6+4+0+9=31, and 3+1=4 (where, oh where have we seen this number before? ) Also, 6+3+7+2+2+3=23, and 2+3=5--yet another oh, so familiar number!! This probably has nothing to do with what the code really means, but I thought it was interesting anyway.

I have watched CYN five times now, sobbing every time! The last few times I watched with my "Tess radar" on, specifically in the scene where Max goes to heal Alex. Tess has a worried look on her face when Max is walking to the van. When Isabel is giving her description of the healing, Tess is standing next to her. Watch her face in this scene--really watch it. She looks like she in concentrating awfully hard on something. Now I know that the podsters usually have to close their eyes and concentrate when using their powers, but Tess said herself that she was getting more powerful. Part of her increase in powers could include that she can now mindwarp without physically showing that she is doing it. My point is, she could be mindwarping Max into thinking that he tried to save Alex when he didn't, or she could be using her mindwarp to keep Max from trying. This is just my take on Tess in this scene--feel free to pick it apart. I just think something is really off about Tess in that scene.

Dayneen: Great observation about the abductions. What happens when someone is being let go of a possession? If the same symptoms go along with being let go, perhaps Alex was being let go when his car crashed. The same question still exists--who would want to possess Alex and why?

From the promo, it looks like Tess's plan is divide and conquer. It looks like she is trying to separate Max from everyone else so that he is especially vulnerable to her. I guess time will tell.

All I can say is GO LIZ!!!! I can't wait to see where this journey is going to lead her! I have incredible faith that when all is said and done it will lead her right back to Max.

I have been lurking for some time now..but thought that this might interest some of you. The binary digits give you the number 936409 if read right to left (the proper way)or the number 637223 if read left to right. I hope this was the proper place to put this info.. If not my apologies .. This is my first post hope this goes up correctly
very nervous that it wont.

just bought this over because i thought it might aid some of you myth's trying to crack the code....
egh.. its worth a try

bex

I'd be curious to know how tigrlily derived that? What type of binary code is she/he assuming it is? Hex? ASCII? Hmm..

This idea of Alex being possessed is definitely intriguing, but the thing that unnerves me is the placement of the blood. There was blood on the seat - almost as if Alex had been shot or thwapped on the back of the head. There wasn't any blood on the dash and there wasn't any blood on the windosheild (from what i could tell), so it leads me to believe maybe he was killed, THEN crashed the car - which would explain why there was so much blood. Car crashes typically (if not a head wond) cause internal bleeding, so the question remains - WHO would want to kill Alex and why?

Just a theory.

Just a theory.

Good point! As Kyle said, "I'm with Liz on this one".

Also Tess in her viewing of Max in a relationship has never been childlike or immature. She has always been the one to view it as a sexual realtionship, an adult realtionship. The prom book, when I first saw Tess' was that it was an Ava move. The way that the words were written and the placement of them seemed to remind me of the Ava scrapbook.

I know that you guys don't like Tess. In fact many of you hate her. I don't. I simply don't know what to make of her because they don't want me to. And I like that. You can attack me and stop reading my posts because of the fact that I am supportive of Tess, fine.

But I really don't think that Tess is Tess completely. She's not a stable character, but she is rather continuous and she has never tried to make her realtionship with Max romantic. She has always focused on the carnal aspects of it.

Excellent points!
Death :
Tess probably was going by what she'd seen in movies or on TV, at first. It was the sort of situation where someone would go comfort the bolting bereaved, so that's what she told Max to do. Very conventional. She has probably never had to deal with the death of a loved one before, except her "father". I'd bet that she really has no frame of reference for it, besides the "he tried to prepare me" she got from him. (Probably useless. )

Notice also that when "Mr. Harding" died, Tess did not grieve emotionally, as we would recognise it. Instead, she got thoughtful and reflective. (Max talking with her on bench, etc.) Isn't this the sort of reaction one would have expected from "Mr. Harding", who considered emotions a weakness? Perhaps this is what he "prepared" her to do.

Maturity :
In so many ways, Tess seems to be an un-matured child. Not because she can't, eventually; but because her life with "Mr. Harding" did not give her the raw experiences for it. Remember her squeal of delight, when she heard about going to Las Vegas? This is the sort of thing that her "father" would have had no intention of doing; yet it is billed as being so desirable.

Love :
Her whole intended relationship with Max is similarly devoid of grown-up material. She has certainly never been in Love before; as Humans experience it. There is no Love in her intended romance with Max. I'd bet that if she "remembers" Love at all, it's a memory given her by her clueless "father". What we see in her, and in her Prom stuff, seems more like a girlish infatuation. The only thing she's got accurately is that husband and wife have sex. Again, it's all theoretical to her. (Yes, I believe she's been "saving herself" for her husband; it's The Thing To Do, don't you know.)

And poor Max has to realize that the girl holding the knife that's being twisted in his heart Loves him, but the girl whose heart and mind are his...
doesn't.

And then what do you do?

I believe that Serena has made numerous appearances in Roswell (this is how the NY group got the yearbook).. In any case, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Sean Deluca turned out to actually BE Serena. And if not, I still think Serena will make her presence known sooner or later.

Anyhow, that was some of my theory revisited.

{~}:}

Thanks so much for responding!!!

I tend to agree. Don't know if I like the idea of Sean being Serena with Liz kissing on him and all! But, if there is an EdCedo, MaxCedo, Tic- Tac, and Nasedo Sean could be one of them. What do you think?

Maybe Serena is the real Nasedo. It has always bothered me that Tess never really acknowledged that "Mr. Harding" was Nasedo. When first asked, she seemed puzzled bny the name.

Meta Thx for the clarifications.

Reggie ITA re: Tess and love. She just doesn't understand, I think. She equates Max with sex, security, and what she's been told is Meant to Be. And poor Max indeed!

MicMac I think the aliens were so harsh with Liz about the possibility of Alex being murdered b/c they know dang well that it might have something to do with them. Isabel already admitted as much in her dream. I think it's a case of their fear and guilt blinding them to the truth; they're just not ready to face it yet.

I've been thinking about Isabel's dreams. I've come to the conclusion that she really was talking to Alex's spirit. In the first one, she says that she's decided to stay in high school and graduate with everyone else. What changes her mind about this is Alex's death--this is actually another indication that EOTW changed the future, b/c if Alex hadn't died, Isabel wouldn't have decided to leave. I think that Alex is trying to tell her in this dream that he wants her to stay. Then in the second dream, he says some truly strange things. First he tells Isabel that he's "the next best thing" to tlak to (one of the reasons I think it's really him). Then he says, "I better go. I'm not making things better for you." This implies that he is appearing in Isabel's dream b/c he thought that it would help her get past his death, to be able to talk to him like this. The phrasing in this scene just really caught my interest.

Cute observation: This was the third time Liz has climbed through Max's window, and she still wouldn't let him help her!
~Tas

Zero I'm sooo glad that my muddled thoughts struck a cord for you. I love your idea about the superiority of human abilities. ITA that the podsters would not be sent to earth and engineered to be human to be left at a significant disadvantage in terms of their ability to accomplish their mission of saving their planet. We know that Nasedo says the podsters are a few thousand (?) years more advanced than the rest of humanity, but that all their powers are specifically human. That means that being human is entirely necessary to their success. What if when Max healed Liz and then reversed the connection with her he enabled her to make evolutionary leaps in hers abilities during the course of this lifetime. That's why she gets flashes to aliens (plural here folks, it has been Max and Nasedo, so far, maybe more to come), she has the power of astral projection and an apparent heightened sense of intuition that has lead her to believe that Alex's death was a murder when no one else has seen that(yet). I also believe that future episodes will reveal her ability to fend of the mental manipulations that some of the others maybe suspectable to. And maybe just maybe that what the retching episode was. That obviously is still up for grabs and can be explained by many things (grief, frustration, etc.). I'm just attempting to do some monday morning quarterbacking at halftime so that we theorists out here can say that we had 20/20 vision without having to wait for it to be the by product of hindsight.

Roswelldiva I'm sorry that our name discussion got buried in the last thread. It seemed prophetic to me that we both woke up the same thoughts about the origins of names when the show had no real connection to that. Maybe we should revisit it here to get the insights of some others?

I have to say I love this thread. I've only resently discovered the FF and even more recently the mythology thread. The thread has added a whole new dimension to the way I watch, interpret and enjoy Roswell. Thanks for all your insights folks.

quote:

Shadows caress both Max and Liz's faces in this picture, but the bouquet of red tulips in the background are accented by the kitchen light. What do red tulips represent? Tulips embody undying love and red tulips represent trust.

Tas

Tas - wraps self in a white sheet I am the ghost of Max's Past. Okay, so maybe I'll come haunt here, too.

Jessica

Better idea: suppose Alex died of a heart attack, like Larek did to Brody when he posessed him? Lacking heart action, Alex's blood would not have been forced out of his body; hence less blood loss.

And did anyone catch in HOM Liz's comment to Sean that her problems couldn't be solved by "writing her name in mustard"? You write your problem in mustard, then eat it. Is Liz thinking she's the problem?

IMO, it's more likely she feels her name is "GROW." (Not literally of course, but that her full identity is centered in her growth...)

Zara

Ist

audrey Having listened to it a few times, I too am reasonably sure it's past tense--"I loved you too."
~Tas

Tas asked me to bring my post over from the Cherishing thread.

Some little crazy thougth about this...
What if in WO Alex can returned to Roswell time in one contition - he staing away from Iz and doing some work for ...?....He do this work but staing away from Iz not so easy.And he was taken back to past(in reality he never come back to Roswell - he in the past,this is why he said to Iz he loved)...bc everybody who can get close to Iz have bad luck ( why - you know in Antar she has great love with Kivar) and must disapear.
And yes I have too this feeling that in Valentis house Liz was attacked or she feel someting and that was why she feel bad in park.And that was cause why she go to Max.She want's subconsciously some safe.
---------
My gram. is so awful but I hope you understand what I traing to say. Sry.

Steph - I believe tigerlily(?) got the 936,409 number by converting the whole binary number at once to decimal. I checked again in one of the multiple computer programming books I have sitting here on my desk and I think usually binary is used to represent a character set, the most common being ascii. And character sets usually have 8 digits in binary. In other words, because Alex's code has only 20 digits to it that would mean that the left 4 zeros were left off like usual. We would have:
0000 1110 0100 1001 1101 1001
In ascii: we get ^N I nothing
In ebcdic: we get SO nothing nothing
In unicode: we get DeviceControl4 I `U
(The unicode is very similar to what Nemo posted that Hooked came up with. Although I think she converted to Hex first and then grouped them and converted again to a character set. I can't quite remember.)

If one just views Alex's code as representing numbers and not directly converting to a character set one would get what Steph, Hooked, and I came up with.
Hexidecimal is read from right to left and groups the binary numbers into sets of 4:
1110 0100 1001 1101 1001
In hex that becomes: E 4 9 D 9
Octal also reads from right to left but you group the binary number in sets of 3:
011 100 100 100 111 011 001
In octal that becomes: 3 4 4 4 7 3 1
As I said before, if you take the binary number as a whole and just plug it into your calculator and convert binary directly to decimal you get: 936,409

I've tried grouping differently by adding 4 zeros to the right even though that's not what is ever done just to see what happened. I even tried lining the hex and octal number up with the alphabet. Nope, nope. Believe me, I was convinced Tuesday morning when I woke up that it would spell either Tess or Kivar. You should have seen me. I'm sure it was quite funny. ::redhawk sits up straight in bed and goes, "Aha!" Like a lightbulb went off in my head or something:: Nope. Nothing so far. The closest I've come is if you group the binary number in sets of 8 starting from the right just like I did for the translations to character sets, but instead convert each group of eight directly to decimal. (Yep, I know it's not usually done this way.) I got 14 73 217. I immediately thought of longitude and latitude and maybe a date. 14-73 ends up near Sweden, but up in the Norwegian Sea. Hmm... somehow I don't think that's what they meant. And 217 as in February 17th. I don't think that was when Alex was gone to Sweden, was it?

Needless to say, now you know why I was starting to get a headache yesterday. I by NO means am a math or computer science person, my degree is in the humanities. This was all gleaned from what little I could remember from my math classes in college and from my numerous computer books. So if you are a math or science whiz, please, please step in and set me straight. Yep, that's my disclaimer.
Oh-O, my head is starting to swim again.

Anyone notice the diamond pattern splayed over Max, when he was in the van trying to revive Alex, in HOM?

Don't feel bad, they did Things to the tune as well. They did on ARCC, too. Does no one on this show know any music?

Well, from The Worshipbook, (C 1972 The Westminster Press), as used in the Presbyterian Church:

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils, and snares
I have already come;
Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures. Amen.

John Newton, 1779
Arr. by Edwin O. Excell, 1900

Nemo-

When we've been there
Ten thousands years
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days
To sing God's praise
Then when we'd first begun

That's from memory, I'd have to check the 'there' vs. 'here' etc.

And don't know if she sang that verse. If so, the 10,000 years (which refers, I believe, to being in heaven), could be symbolic of time travel.

Still thinking of the cold food in WO and Alex's reaction to the cold food in CYN.

Anyway, regarding Liz finding the picture. I think that points to conspiracy more than anything else. It's like the thing was left there just for Liz to find. And how did Hansen not find it or the people that took the car to the crime lab not find it??? They really did an open and shut case because I get the feeling the only way that Liz could have found the photo and it not be a plant would indicate that no investigation was done.

Which in itself suggest conspiracy on the part of Hansen or Valenti...

I don't think that it's a suicide clue either. Look how neatly and nice Alex's head is cut out of the photo. Depressed, masticistic people probably don't have the patience or skill to use scissors with such percision. And why is the photo in otherwise perfect condition? If Alex was sad about Leanne, wouldn't there be wrinkles from pressure points when he was holding it?? Why no blood on the photo?? Max said there was blood everywhere on Alex.

And another thing, I think that the reason for the time delay is that Alex needed some time to himself to think about returning back into a relationship with Isabel. He took the picture of himself and Leanne and drove out into the country where he decided to give up on Leanne, and he cut himself out of the picture. (Assuming that Alex actually did this.) He then started to return to Roswell, and speeding, came onto a turn where the sudden lights from a semi reduced his vision and he veered into the truck, instead of avoiding it.

There are really a lot of possiblities of Alex's death, but Liz finding the photo is creepier than anything else.

The Blood-Ok, maybe in Roswell land blood takes hours to dry, and doesn't darken or congeal...Max's hand was wet with bright red blood. Either a big ole CHAD, or not Alex's blood? In my experience blood dries fairly fast. *this is the censored portion of my post, dealing with the cooling rate of bodies, post mortem* If Alex had been dead for more than an hour, why would Valenti even think that Max could heal him? I did think that maybe, because Max had never laid hands on a dead body, the cool skin shocked him, because it does feel different. Can you tell yet that I did not like this whole scenario? And certainly, if there was enough blood for Max's hand to be wet with it, there should have been more on the seat, in the car, on the ceiling of the car, etc!

Liz's Outburst-Its about d@mn time! What is with Isabel being all psycho? There was an instant, where I thought 'Iz is gonna slap Liz!' Whew, thanks be that didn't happen!

Valentis-It was wrong, insensitive and out of character for both Jim and Kyle to not even ask Liz if she was ok before walking off and leaving her alone! Kyle even reached back and grabbed Tess. So very wrong...

Well, since I don't know crud about Binary Code or whatever, I will say that the notes Liz played (B G#C#F...I think) anyway...GC=Grandma Claudia. Always has. Always will. Maybe she was channeling or something? Maybe it was GC who pointed Liz towards the tickets? Okie then...

Ohhh, didn't Liz's prom book say that the necklace was GC's? Did anyone figure out what it was? Hmmmm anyone else notice that Tess was the only one that didn't get the colors question? I think her reply was "what?" Anyway, painfully obvious that something was up with Kyle suddenly feeling all brotherly towards Tess...I think he said he couldn't put his finger on it? Mindwarp anyone?

Val

[url]http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html [/url]

Here's the relevant excerpt (I've bolded the verses Maria sang):

Among Newton’s contributions which are still loved and sung today are “How Sweet the Name of Jesus Sounds” and ”Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken,” as well as “Amazing Grace.” Composed probably between 1760 and 1770 in Olney, ”Amazing Grace” was possibly one of the hymns written for a weekly service. Through the years other writers have composed additional verses to the hymn which came to be known as “Amazing Grace” (it was not thus entitled in Olney Hymns), and possibly verses from other Newton hymns have been added. However, these are the six stanzas that appeared, with minor spelling variations, in both the first edition in 1779 and the 1808 edition, the one nearest the date of Newton’s death. It appeared under the heading Faith’s Review and Expectation, along with a reference to First Chronicles,chapter 17, verses 16 and 17.

Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That sav’d a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears reliev’d;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believ’d!

Thro’ many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promis’d good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who call’d me here below,
Will be forever mine.

The origin of the melody is unknown. Most hymnals attribute it to an early American folk melody. The Bill Moyers special on “Amazing Grace” speculated that it may have originated as the tune of a song the slaves sang.

I've never heard the last 3 verses before, but they're apparently genuine. So, the question is, why these verses instead of the standard first 3? On Cherishing, Ist42 mentioned that the veil might refer to the lace shawl on Liz's head in EOTW. Completely wishful, I know, but I like that thought Also, the first bolded vers--which Maria sang last--is the same verse that the ghost sang in ARCC, right before Max declared that he needed to restore the balance.
~Tas

Carrie is paying us a visit, I see. Aren't we just lucky?

Val

Wow all of you have been very busy using your investigative talents. I just love it here even more when Liz gets put in the drivers seat. Did you notice the amazing support Shiri/Liz got on the WB board. Almost all of the posts were about what a wonderful actress Shiri is.

Ok here is something I caught, I don't think it has been posted yet. When Michael is under the blechers he warns everyone that the grief counselor has a list of their names and that they need to look out for her. Did any of you think of "Topolsky" and the FBI when he said this?
Here is what the sheriff said to Max on 4sq.

SHERIFF: What if there is, Max? What is everything Topolsky told us was true? I mean, the Special Unit of the FBI... Pierce, the alien hunter...What if he just killed Topolsky and six completely innocent people. This is serious Max. People are dying. That list Topolsky talked about...Liz Parker's on that list. Your sister, Isabel's on the list... Michael, Maria, Alex... I'm on the list. You're not the only one in danger here...we all are. We need to help each other now. And you need to trust me, `cause somebody's out there right now. And anywhere you turn, he could be watching you.

As you can see "Alex" was on that list and it looks like Liz is the only one who is taking the Sheriffs warning to heart. I think his words stand out now more then ever before. I really think the alien hunter was not Pierce but another alien. Notice how the Sheriff seems to refer to them as different people. Topolsky did the same thing on Crazy she called the alien the "subject." But the big question is who is the "Alien Hunter?" As you can see "Tess" is not on that list and remember what Courtney said, "Oh don't worrie about Tess, no one is out to get her." But Courtney was wrong because we all know Liz is out to get her.

Evid

I too live in fear of Max getting his memories back in the last five minutes of the season. Dreamers, it occurs to me that touching Liz activates his suppressed memories, as in SH. He's not touching her anymore and Tess is filling in.

Which in itself suggest conspiracy on the part of Hansen or Valenti...

Hansen is trouble - even if he means well in his earnestness, which I doubt. I think he's the one who requested the info on the '47 crash posted at the silverhandprint. He was also behind the attempt to oust Valenti. I know you remember that he's the one who found Michael's knife near the burned remains of Agent Pierce out in the desert.

It would be creepy if Jim V turned out to be a counter-agent, but remember we spent all last season wondering where he stood! It wasn't until Kyle was healed that Valenti pledged his honor to the Pod Squad. That said, I trust his loyalty. He's one of the Protectors.

Zara

FehrGame- I just thought of that the night after the episode. Maybe its just a thought but it sounded good. I didn't think about Grandma Claudia though. I don't have the tapes and can't really remember that far back. What happened?
Steph- I was think about that too. Maybe Alex found out something and Khvair posessed him(or whatever you call it) and made him kill himself before he told everyone.

As for the code thing. I have no idea. I'm not a computer person so I know understand it.

I don't understand why Max had wet blood on his hands. Wouldn't it of been dried? Was Alex really dead when the accident happened or did someone kill him afterwards?

I'm going to watch it again and I'll be back with any new ideas or questions I have.

BSR

BSR

Anyway, regarding Liz finding the picture. I think that points to conspiracy more than anything else. It's like the thing was left there just for Liz to find. And how did Hansen not find it or the people that took the car to the crime lab not find it??? They really did an open and shut case because I get the feeling the only way that Liz could have found the photo and it not be a plant would indicate that no investigation was done.

Which in itself suggest conspiracy on the part of Hansen or Valenti...

I don't think that it's a suicide clue either. Look how neatly and nice Alex's head is cut out of the photo. Depressed, masticistic people probably don't have the patience or skill to use scissors with such percision. And why is the photo in otherwise perfect condition? If Alex was sad about Leanne, wouldn't there be wrinkles from pressure points when he was holding it?? Why no blood on the photo?? Max said there was blood everywhere on Alex.

And another thing, I think that the reason for the time delay is that Alex needed some time to himself to think about returning back into a relationship with Isabel. He took the picture of himself and Leanne and drove out into the country where he decided to give up on Leanne, and he cut himself out of the picture. (Assuming that Alex actually did this.) He then started to return to Roswell, and speeding, came onto a turn where the sudden lights from a semi reduced his vision and he veered into the truck, instead of avoiding it.

There are really a lot of possiblities of Alex's death, but Liz finding the photo is creepier than anything else.

Qfanny, great ideas! I hadn't thought about the fact that it is extremely weird that Liz found the picture -- that she just reached into the car and grabbed it. Hmmm....

What about the possibility that Alex didn't leave that clue for Liz at all. What if perhaps Alex took the picture out of the frame (did we even see him do this, I don't remember) and left it on his desk. Someone else wants Liz to figure things out -- either it's a set-up, and they are leading her into the Lion's den (Khivar - evil aliens, whomever) or what about the possibility that the other shapeshifter is helping her along. Maybe that person knew Liz would go to the car (maybe this is yet another timeline and she did that in the other one) and they purposely took Alex's face out of the picture and planted it on the seat for Liz to find. That would certainly explain the lack of blood on the photo and the fact that noone else found it before Liz.

Maybe this quest that Liz is on is vital to this whole thing playing out. Perhaps Liz needs to go through the steps to figure out the truth for reasons we don't know yet. I like the idea that she is getting some unsolicited guidance from a yet unknown shapeshifter -- who I really want to think is Serena. Maybe Sean ISN'T Serena, but I just have this gut feeling that the other shapeshifter will turn out to be her.

Anyhow, just thought I would add that. But as Qfanny pointed out, there is something DEFINITELY wrong with the scenario of Liz just finding the photo in the car. Great catch!!!

{~}:}

[b]The Blood-Ok, maybe in Roswell land blood takes hours to dry, and doesn't darken or congeal...Max's hand was wet with bright red blood. Either a big ole CHAD, or not Alex's blood? In my experience blood dries fairly fast. *this is the censored portion of my post, dealing with the cooling rate of bodies, post mortem* If Alex had been dead for more than an hour, why would Valenti even think that Max could heal him? I did think that maybe, because Max had never laid hands on a dead body, the cool skin shocked him, because it does feel different. Can you tell yet that I did not like this whole scenario? And certainly, if there was enough blood for Max's hand to be wet with it, there should have been more on the seat, in the car, on the ceiling of the car, etc![/b]

OK, am I the only one who DIDN'T NOTICE the blood on Max's hand??? I've watched this episode 5X already, and I still don't see it!!! I thought that he was just looking at his hand because he was in shock that he wasn't able to heal Alex -- or was just looking at his hand because it DID feel weird to have touched a dead body, well a dead body of a friend. I just realized that Max in all probability Max touched Pierce after he died...they had to get them out of the UFO and into the ground somehow.... Hmmmm...

Are you guys positive there was really blood on his hands? I really can't see it!!

quote:I will say that the notes Liz played (B G#C#F...I think) anyway...GC=Grandma Claudia. Always has. Always will. Maybe she was channeling or something? Maybe it was GC who pointed Liz towards the tickets? Okie then...

I like that idea, however I personally think that it's probably more plausible that Liz just picked up Alex's bass (by the way, don't you just LOVE acoustic basses? I love them almost as much as fretless ones!) and not knowing how to play it she just hit the open strings? The tones heard are just the open strings of the bass...I would love it if they gave us a musical clue like that, but I really think it was just a case of Liz not knowing how to play like Jaco Pastorious or Flea.

{~}:}

Jessi you made it ! I have to admit everything sounds fishy. I think it was definately a conspiracy. Perhaps Alex came out of the 'possession' right when the other car was coming and he might have been caught off guard or something and slammed into it. I don't think they put his dead body in there afterwards for one and secondly then who would have been driving the car?

quote:Originally posted by *BehrSkinRug*:
This means that when Liz changed the future by not being with Max something happened to Alex. Any thoughts on this?

Definately a result of the domino effect caused by the change FMax and Liz made happen (even though it would in essence then be Tess's fault). Someone said that Alex would have had to live til he was 19 then so obviously something made it happen.

Re: The Blood. No it would not have been dried out especially if it happened only within 24 hours there would be nothing alive in the body to start healing a cut so it would just start decomposing after a few days. This is why an autopsy should have been performed !

Both these verses, and Shapeshifter's, seem familiar. I believe that this song is often done with the first verse repeated at the end.

Anyway, I think we came in in the middle of the song, as it was being sung at the interment. This was not the funeral; they were coming from that. It's possible, though unlikely, that the rest of Alex's band did something at the funeral. Surely the members were there, and many students. The ceremony committing the body to the ground (ashes to ashes...) is generally more private.

I've lost too many relatives over the years.

I thought I heard Alex say loved. Now, I've never been a Stargazer by any means, but I thought it was weird of Alex to say loved. By that I mean that I just didn't see Alex getting over Isabel anytime soon, Swedish girlfriend or not. The fact that he said loved makes me think he's probably dead.

Liz Evans and I were talking about Tess's reactions while Isabel was saying what Max would do--how he would HEAL Alex and Liz Evans said it almost looked like Tess was getting worried that MAX JUST MIGHT HEAL ALEX!!!!! and when he came out unsuccessful she looked relieved??????LOL!!! I have to tell you I do think this is a possibility.

Okay I found this CLUE he he!!!!Actually I am not happy about this one at all---I am counting on you guys to check this out for me---go back to HOM when Sean brings Liz back from their date(hurl) the camera pans up to the sign Crashdown Cafe---and as the camera starts to pan back towards the VW with Sean and Liz in it-----I noticed something---slow-mo for best results in seeing this but I caught it in realtime LOL----first it looks like a sign that is partially blocked and only thing that is revealed it HE then the camera pans a bit more to the right---the building next show it says COLLECTIBLE ANTIQUES????????????? Well I wanted to be sick because who is HE that COLLECTS ANTIQUES---thats right Mr Creepy Ed Harding/Nasedo????????? No please not Sean my S theory will be blown---but if this is the case then now I am wondering if Doug Shellow was creepy Ed as well---he said he wanted to be ALONE with her---and in M2tM it has always bothered me the way MAXEDO said to Liz "I just want to tell you Liz I won't let anyone ever come between us--not anyone" and I always had the sinking feeling that he didn't want anyone to come between him and Liz------HURL!!!!!----so I am dragging that theory back out again----creepy Ed Harding could now be Sean D----watch out Liz.

I think this is a definite possibility. What if, and forgive me if someone has already proposed this, but what if Nasedo is/was Khivar and he knew way back when that he needed to divide Liz and Max to achieve his goals? Just a specualtion.

My primary problem with that picture Liz found, and this might be pretty lame in light of the other *conspiracy* theories in here... is where and how it was found. Where was Alex keeping it that it would be simply sitting on the seat rather conveniently like that. The car itself was overturned on the highway from a head on collision (going 70mph) into an oncoming semi. It was more than likely towed several miles after that and then dropped probably pretty haphazardly in the junkyard. Wouldn't that picture have been lost somewhere during the accident, salvage and/or en route considering how much the car was jostled around? Alex must have stored that pic somewhere pretty darn securely for it to simply just casually plop down where it did. I kind of like the idea that some have dropped that the pic *might have* been planted by someone. Although, WHO would have planted it?

btw, since the pic that was cut-up was of Alex and Leanna. I have to wonder... WHO is Leanna considering recent developments (something most definitely WEIRD was happening to Alex)? Any specs?

Melodious

I don't know about standard accident reporting. I suppose in the case of manslaughter there would have to be more rules for record department... Fact, we don't know exactly when Alex crashed. We do know that police were already on scene, (several of them, more than just Hansen) when Valenti showed up. As far as we know, the accident could have happened before nightfall. It is in a rural locale, it may have taken a while to get reported.

I agree with Mel that the "how" the picture could have stayed in the car unnoticed (by a guy that found a small pocketknife 14 feet away from a dig site in the dark and pinned it as evidence in S&B) is the biggest puzzle here. The next question is, where is Alex's head??? Is it in his room? I bet if we can find his head, a lot of our questions will be answered.

As for the unusual choice of verses, that seemed to reflect the occasion. Or, as Reggie said, maybe all were sung, but we came in in the middle. (As Maria reminded us recently, things do happen in this story in between the moments that we get to see.) And, like Reggie, I seem to remember occasions when the first verse was repeated at the end.

Reggie, thanks for the wave.

Some little crazy thought about this...
What if in WO Alex was returned to Roswell time only in one condition - that he stayed away from Iz and does some work for...[Kivar[!?!???]] ?....He does the job but staying away from Iz is not so easy. So he was taken back to past (in reality he never come back to Roswell - he in the past,this is why he said to Iz that he "loved" not "love")...because everybody who gets close to Iz has bad luck ( [because ?] she had a great love with Kivar) and must disapear.
And yes I have too this feeling that in Valentis house Liz was attacked or she felt something and that was why she feels sick in the park. And that's why she goes to Max. She subconsciously want's some safety.
---------
My gram. is so awful but I hope you understand what I traing to say. Sry.

I think these verses fit nicely with the possible EOTW connection and with Alex existing now in a time warp. Also, Newton was a slave trader whose boat got caught in a storm during which he saw the error of his ways and turned to God and evangelism instead. Yes, the tune is a plantation song, but I don't recall which. I probably still have a research paper on it somewhere. But Newton's life could be symbolic of trashing the Destiny mandate and following one's heart.

Evid, Good points about Alex being on the hit list 'n' all.

quote:Originally posted by Zara:
Hansen is trouble - even if he means well in his earnestness, which I doubt...thank you, Zara, for bringing me back to my senses--that Hansen is always digging up dirt on the podsters and co.

GraceKel wrote:
quote:creepy Ed Harding could now be Sean D----watch out Liz.

If this were so then Liz would have known when they kissed. She got flashes from Nacedo when they kissed, but didn't when she kissed Sean.

The binary code does decode to E49D9 which I believe to be map locations. When you look up a city for example on a map they give you a letter and a number to find the location on the grid of the map. I don't know what map Alex was looking at though. E 49 and D 9 would mean two locations. Perhaps Roswell and New York or the Granilith and Copper Summit. Or they could be locations in space one in the episilon quadrant section 49 and the other from the delta quadrant section 9. Perhaps these are the locations of their enemies or their allies. Earth is in the alpha quadrant.

As far as the picture - I think that it was a plant. It's too clean and undamaged to have been in the car during the crash.

Jeanne/MOB12

but in the middle of the song, there are four pulses, identical to the signals sent out in Destiny.

That got me thinking about what one very observant poster said awhile back about poetry meter. 100 could symbolize /-- which would normally symbolize the beat of a dactylic poem. Four /--'s could indicate four beats, or four PULSES.

Perhaps Alex CRIED HIS NAME. -HH

Storm-I know what you are saying about the kiss between Liz and Sean and believe me I was so hoping that Sean is not a bad guy myself I just happen to see that and it just jumped out at me and they made such a point to show that Ed Harding collected antiques so.......as for Liz not flashing well Max and Liz have not exactly been connecting much of late either-perhaps this loss of connection has had some affect. I also noticed that when Liz is on this date(hurl) with Sean(ALL COLORS are featured--behind him---UNIVERSAL?

Here is one more thing I noticed--people on this thread have mentioned TRY featured and OUTS featured a bit later---but on second look at this what they first show is CHESS CLUB-----and then TRY--------OUTS---I don't play CHESS myself--but aren't there PAWNS in a chess game? The old CC again too LOL---also on the van that housed Alex's body said COUNTY CORONER--in keeping with the CC's again. Liz simply finding that picture is just too damn convenient I think--it does seem someone wanted her to find it--but why?

In light of the discussion regarding the pics, I thought I would post the three of Alex in Sweden that have been on the show so far.

Alex from the school newspaper article on his time in Sweden

First pic from WAF showing Alex and Leanna in a city in Sweden

Second pic from CYN showing Alex and Leanna in a more pastoral setting

Many thanks to provence and the DDD for the last cap. Other two are from silverhandprint.com and crashdown.com respectively.

Edited because I am not sure why these aren't working! Can anyone help me out here?

If one just views Alex's code as representing numbers and not directly converting to a character set one would get what Steph, Hooked, and I came up with.
Hexidecimal is read from right to left and groups the binary numbers into sets of 4:
1110 0100 1001 1101 1001
In hex that becomes: E 4 9 D 9
Octal also reads from right to left but you group the binary number in sets of 3:
011 100 100 100 111 011 001
In octal that becomes: 3 4 4 4 7 3 1
As I said before, if you take the binary number as a whole and just plug it into your calculator and convert binary directly to decimal you get: 936,409

I've tried grouping differently by adding 4 zeros to the right even though that's not what is ever done just to see what happened. I even tried lining the hex and octal number up with the alphabet. Nope, nope. Believe me, I was convinced Tuesday morning when I woke up that it would spell either Tess or Kivar. You should have seen me. I'm sure it was quite funny. ::redhawk sits up straight in bed and goes, "Aha!" Like a lightbulb went off in my head or something:: Nope. Nothing so far. The closest I've come is if you group the binary number in sets of 8 starting from the right just like I did for the translations to character sets, but instead convert each group of eight directly to decimal. (Yep, I know it's not usually done this way.) I got 14 73 217. I immediately thought of longitude and latitude and maybe a date. 14-73 ends up near Sweden, but up in the Norwegian Sea. Hmm... somehow I don't think that's what they meant. And 217 as in February 17th. I don't think that was when Alex was gone to Sweden, was it?

All very interesting stuff, but I think we may be giving the writers a BIT more credit than they deserve. I just can't see them all sitting around the "drawing board" saying, "OK, if we take the octal code such-and-such and then add it to the hex cod blah-blah-blah, then align it with the ASCII character something-or-other we'll get this random slew of numbers and we'll add a zero to make it complicated!"

I have to stop thinking about it before it makes my brain hurt (I can identify with the ::sitting up in bed and saying "A-HA". I convinced myself of the same thing)!

BSR

OK, so something that happened between EOTW and CYN has changed the destiny of Alex. What do we know? We know that PRIOR to EOTW, Liz and Max got married in LV with Alex and the gang there to watch. Do we know WHEN they got married? Could they (prior to EOTW) have gotten married at a time frame that still would have allowed for this ending (Alex's death in CYN)? OR - did they originally get married at a time AFTER CYN would have taken place, hence REALLY changing the future? Does this make sense!?

So, let's assume they got married AFTER CYN would have taken place, therefore, Alex was originally alive at this point in the game before FM and Liz changed it. What's different now? T's role in the group!

That's really the only major difference, right? I mean, Liz and Max would have been married, but I'm not sure their "status" is all that relevant to the fate of Alex. So originally T left town and no on was harmed until MUCH later in time. NOW? T stayed in Roswell and Alex dies. Coincidence? I think not!

For some reason the whole confrontation of the delivery boy on the field really impressed me. Liz was so commanding. And the look she gave the kids standing around was so challenging! It was as tho' she was on a battlefield ready to take everyone on. Maximus came to mind!

On my 2nd viewing, my thought was that she was looking out at them as their Queen. She commanded their respect. Most teens would have been defensive to be caught like that. To me, the way the other students walked away without question and the delivery boy hung his head and answered her questions- it was like he was begging for mercy. Bringing her the receipt at the end was his was of making up for his lack of loyalty on the field.

I may be way off base here. These were just my impressions. Liz rules- Literally!!!

So, let's assume they got married AFTER CYN would have taken place, therefore, Alex was originally alive at this point in the game before FM and Liz changed it. What's different now? T's role in the group!

That's really the only major difference, right? I mean, Liz and Max would have been married, but I'm not sure their "status" is all that relevant to the fate of Alex. So originally T left town and no on was harmed until MUCH later in time. NOW? T stayed in Roswell and Alex dies. Coincidence? I think not!

FMax-"We eloped. We were 19." And if the normal age for graduation is still 18, then they wouldn't have gotten married for about 2 more years.

quote:Originally posted by Qfanny:
The point I was trying to make - which I feel I did successfully - is that the picture sort of magically appears and no one has considered this to be odd? Everyone was freaking out about the binary code.

QFanny, I don't really know how the procedure would follow up in Roswell PD but I know for sure if they thought anything suspicious here they would have most probably waited to search the car the next day during daylight (Liz just went there before anyone else got in). Another thing was it is possible that someone may have planted that but how in the world did they know Liz was going to go back to the car to search for anything? Doesn't make sense. I can't think the are even that good a predicting future events especially if this is a new event resulting from the new timeline change--no one would know she was going to check the car.

Finally, it is just possible that the picture was placed in the flap over the driver's side (that thing that pulls down to block the sun whatever its called ) and when they flipped the car back over right side up it just fell on the seat. It is very plausible. I do agree what is weird is the fact the picture was neatly cut with a pair of scissors . That was the first thing I posted here.

Re: binary code...

I agree with Steph. I cannot picture the writers going thru that much trouble over the code. That number could just be Khivar's social security num ber and thats what they sign on Antar . It would be funny though I can picture the writers going like, lets make Alex sign this random number in here in a binary code and watch the Liz myther people go crazy trying to solve it... I think what is important to know about that whole deal is thats obviously not Alex's signature.

Thanks!

quote:Originally posted by roswelldiva:
Re: binary code...

I agree with Steph. I cannot picture the writers going thru that much trouble over the code. That number could just be Khivar's social security num ber and thats what they sign on Antar . It would be funny though I can picture the writers going like, lets make Alex sign this random number in here in a binary code and watch the Liz myther people go crazy trying to solve it... I think what is important to know about that whole deal is thats obviously not Alex's signature.

Well, you know they DO get their best ideas from the RBI!

Not much we can do. Atleast we got to see these new ones you know? I guess we can't give up and just see these shows as extra candy to help keep us fighting...

Steph !!

I think we're all have the same feelings , but keep the faith. They put the panic in us at the end of Season 1 and I think (hope) they're doing it again. How could they cancel a show with such an avid fan base? Besides, how would I spend my work days if they took Roswell off the air? There's only so many times you watch an episode before people think you're nuts!

Check out Roswell 2 for all the campaigning that's going on, as well. Every little bit helps!

MoonMaiden, Steph - I remember thinkg great things about your theories - especially concerning Tess. I totally think she mindwarped when Max was in the van.

Also great catch on Liz throwing up -possibly in response to a mindwarp attempt.

AND - great stuff on Isabels' Alex "dreams".

The campaign crew just posted a request to send TABASCO to the UPN network with a request that they pick up Roswell.
Nothing "official" on the WB drpping it - but evidently it looks pretty bad.

So - check out the addresses on the main page of the crashdown and send in tabasco ASAP - a decision is being made by May 17th!!!

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Of course as long a the code proves to be useful in discovering the truth behind Alex's death and providing info to the podsters it doesn't really matter how specifically it is used. Because no matter what this will restore Liz's place within the group and show them that they can never again dismiss her intuition. Her intelligence and intuition are keys to so many discoveries about themselves and provide them with power to control events. Just think about it where would the podsters be if not for Liz following her intuition throughout season 1. They fact that Kyle agrees with Liz about something not being right with Alex's death and that he too has been changed by being saved by Max, should clue us into the development of the power of intuition that these two possess. Maybe the aliens lack this power, but are able to bestow it on others when they connect with them. At any rate I'm starting to feel that Liz's powers will be rooted in the mind and be less physical in nature (i.e. not able to manipulate physical elements, like the podsters can). What do you guys think?

Just rambling, but I like the possibilities your idea presents. Any thoughts on the above?

Just rambling, but I like the possibilities your idea presents. Any thoughts on the above?

I like it too! Here's a thought - what if Alex was trying to be controlled by both Khivar and another (good) SS (like Serena??)? There was an internal struggle happening, which is why Valenti mentioned how people had noticed, "mood swings" in Alex as of late!? Khivar was the one that ended up killing Alex in the end, but the good SS was the one that wrote the code on the receipt? As a clue, say to the Granolith and working it? Whatcha think?

OK, here's another thought - regarding Liz and her cough/throw up scene outside T's. What if someone's trying to possess Liz now? If someone WAS possessing Alex, then maybe after the leak of "the code" they decided to kill Alex and move on to the next KEY person - Liz . They figure why not go right to the source!?

You have to admit there was a change between this strong, determined Liz that we saw throughout CYN and the Liz DIRECTLY after that coughing scene (where she goes to Max). Maybe she felt vulnerable at that point and needed to get strength, which we KNOW she gets from Max!

Am I reaching too far!?

You have to admit there was a change between this strong, determined Liz that we saw throughout CYN and the Liz DIRECTLY after that coughing scene (where she goes to Max). Maybe she felt vulnerable at that point and needed to get strength, which we KNOW she gets from Max!

WOW. Steph not at all it seems to fit in with all the visuals and makes loads of sense! Good one ! We're getting good (notice how slyishly I added me to the we as if ) ...AS IF!

Hmm those pictures are interesting. In the two with Alex hugging Leanna, it looks like it's the SAME picture but with a different background. and from someone who has been to Scandinavia that time of year-it's COLD!I think they'd be more bundlded up than that. Things that make ya go hmmm... :eyespin:

edited to say YEAH! I got another star!!

GraceKel: I agree with your take on that scene as well. Tess does look worried that Max might be able to heal Alex, and her reaction when he can't seems more like relief than anything else.

I was also thinking about silverhandprint last night. I think there are major clues there, we just haven't figured them all out yet. Some of them are obvious--like Tess's prom card--but some are more subtle. The picture of Alex by the windmill, for example, was a clue. First of all, it looks completely fake. The lighting around Alex is different than the lighting around the windmill. It looks like he was cut & pasted into the picture. IMHO, I think this was a clue foreshadowing his death if you link the windmill to Don Quixote. Don Quixote was a Spaniard who went crazy and believed he was a knight. He traveled various places to "fight evil", and eventually ended up back at his home. He then realized he had been crazy the entire time before he died. If you think in terms of this story, it seems possible that maybe Alex was possessed when he was gone, or even before he left. When he got home, he began to realize it and remember what had happened. Maybe it was the things he was remembering that caused him to die. Like Zara said, he could have killed himself to protect the others. Or, whatever was possessing him (or an accomplice) could have caused the crash to prevent him from revealing what he remembered.

This may be completely off base, but I still think there are clues on silverhandprint that have yet to be found. Sorry this was so long! Oh, and I just have to add, GO LIZ GO!!!!!

Why did Alex lie?
Who is Leanna?
Where was he driving to?
Who cut the picture and why? (probably solved within the answers to the above...)
Why can't Max be mindwarped around Liz? (big IF thats why he's being such a prick )

Umm, I think I'll leave it at that from my side of the bench .

Quote by Tasyfa
-Jim Valenti seems to accept that Max had the right to yell at him, and demand an explanation. In spite of the age difference, it's clear that Valenti sees Max as the leader too. Also, at the morgue in the beginning, Valenti goes to get the van drivers out of the way when Max nods at him; another sign of this deference. He shows the same deference to Liz when she confronts him with the mutilated photo.

This is so RIGHT ON!!

Indeed! Look at the Alex&Leanna pose: it's identical in both pictures. (Drat! TVPooh got it in first- shouldn't have gone to work today. )

OK, so: the pictures are faked. By the props guy for Roswell, by Alex (the computer person), or by evil alien(s) who wanted Alex to believe he had gone to Sweden (but who instead took him to... ?)

Also the crashed car: Nuh-uh. My truck's front bumper is only 20" off the ground, lower than my car's bumper! There's No Way that the damage to Alex's car can show an impact with a tractor-trailer, with a speed difference of 100 MPH or more. The front bumper would have been in Alex's lap. It isn't, so it didn't. It did flip over; the damage does reflect that.

Lies, lies. But is it sloppy props, or clues ?!?

Hi Reggie: Just to disagree with you a bit, what if Alex's car was only grazed by the truck and pushed off the road, causing it to flip? Besides, I don't think TPTB wanted Alex to be totally mushed into raw hamburg and burried in a baggie. Maybe they were just trying to be kind to Alex fans that wanted him burried in one piece.

THE TWO PICTURES OF ALEX AND LEANNA ARE THE SAME PICTURE!!!!!!!

Does anyone else not see it? One is just larger than the other. The one in the frame looks like it was cut to fit the frame. Notice the building, the street light, and the clouds in the background. It definitely is the same picture.

And I just have to say this again, I still have not noticed that Max had blood on his hands when he got out of the van. How can you see this? It's so dark! (or is it just my tv?). Are we sure that there was actual blood on Max's hand? Or are we just assuming that there was. This is driving me crazy! Does anyone have a screencap?????

OK, that's all I wanted to say for now!

{~}:}

Meta I will look at Max's hand for you again I thought there was blood but maybe I just assumed there was blood the way he kept looking at his hand--so will have to review and get back to you. By the way I also meant to post this b4---you last long post about the Balance episode and the Human importance to these podsters I think is very much dead on--if one thing we have seen this season is the Aliens have much more trouble without their human friends.LOL!!!

There's definitely blood on his hand. I'm at work and can't go check, but I'm SURE I saw it when I watched it. Someone confirm please, but I think I remember Max rubbing his fingers together with the blood on them - no!?

Yup Meta there was definitely blood on his hands! My one TV doesn't show it as well as my bigger TV though

JC

You have all been busy - I've used all my time just catching up on my reading! Great work though!

Met - Look for Max's had to glisten in the light - it indicates it is wet - with blood.

Also - while the Alex and Leanna picutre looks real to me, the windmill picuture has always looked fake to me. Umm...??

I don't have time to post more, but I want to welcome all the new posters and people who have come out of lurkdom! It is great to hear from you all!

Zero
I Shall (try to continue to) Believe!
The Truth Is Out There!

I for one am glad the campaign crew got the green light to write & send hot sauce to UPN. Roswell has become too big of a part of my life to leave now.

About TEOTW: Most people don't like the idea of Tess having been evil all along. I thought about this & came up with this:
FMax was very careful about what he told Liz. He did say the reason everything went to hell in a handbasket was because him & Tess weren't together. However...
If Tess is - and has been - MWing Max now, she could've maintained that to the end. Even though Max obviously gains more power & control Tess would always be stronger than him because she would've gained more power just as Max did & she's had more from the beginning.
I don't think Tess is evil evil. Kind of like Darth Vader in Star Wars. Vader is obviously more evil than her but still.
There's also that little saying, "Keep your friends close & your enimies even closer."

Anyway, regarding the Alex thing, why would he meet Shawn, and if so, what reason would he have?

I have a request. I know most of you have been discussing CYN for a while and have come up with some great evidence incriminating Tess or whoever, so could someone make a list of the stuff you've come up with? I think if you have everything right at your hands, then thinking and forming theories becomes a lot simpler. Just a thought.

Liz and Max forever!

"I'm Liz Parker and three days ago I died. And then the really amazing thing happened. I came to life"

No, whatever possessed Alex to take him out of the picture, clearly wanted him to ram the truck. The truck would not have been manouverable enough to get out of the way. I feel sure Shapeshifter will post a "car.jpg", clearly showing the un-bashed front of the car. (She's so good about such things. )

Don't you just hate it when things are so obvious that you completely skip them over? That sounds like a damn good possibility to me! Me thinketh you hit it on the nail Lorne! *pats Lorne on back* Nothing better than fresh brains

goddess f (it would be hard for us to get that organized but it does sound like a good idea you wanna help? ) & c.mcoy (YES!YES! Jason K is a GENIUS! you can just feel the difference in your bones

JC my nemisis!
You came?! jejeje...

[b]THE TWO PICTURES OF ALEX AND LEANNA ARE THE SAME PICTURE!!!!!!!

Does anyone else not see it? One is just larger than the other. The one in the frame looks like it was cut to fit the frame. Notice the building, the street light, and the clouds in the background. It definitely is the same picture.[/B]

YES, I do! I was confused as to why everyone kept saying the backgrounds were different, when they are identical! The framed photo is a print of the slide. The streetlight totally gives it away. It's just harder to see in the framed pic b/c it's at an angle to the (video) camera.

As for what Alex did with it--we see him looking at the framed photo of him & Lianna. Then, we see the same photo, defaced, in the car wreck. Then, in his room, we see the frame with a different photo in it--a group shot, and there's now a strip of paper underneath it with some words (I think that's the bumper sticker--sorry, I can't recall what it says right now). So Alex, or someone else, removed the Lianna photo from the frame, replaced it with the group shot, put the frame back on the desk with the sticker, and cut up the Lianna photo before stowing it somewhere in Alex's car. BTW, I thought Liz pulled it out of the little pocket in the door, where you keep maps and stuff, or from in between the door & the seat, on the floor. It definitely was NOT just sitting on the seat.

My guess would be that Alex is the one who switched the pics, at least. He'd just been muttering about everything being a lie. Maybe he was tired of lying about something, part of which had to do with the manufactured Lianna pic. So he took it out and put the group shot in. But then something must have happened, b/c he never ate his cold food. I wonder if Hansen & Co. will check the phone records? Alex could have gotten a phone call from someone, and it was urgent enough that he left his food and went to meet this person. On his way back from this meeting, he crashed (it was never mentioned if he was coming into or going out of Roswell, was it?). Suppose the person he met realized that Alex was ready to blow the whistle on what they'd been doing, and did something to Alex or to the car to make it crash (possession à la Khivar, or physical control of the speedometer/wheel à la Rath).

This would explain all of the "warning signs" that Alex's teachers had noticed, too. When Liz was keeping the aliens' secret from Alex, she was behaving in a manner that caused other people to question who she was. Could not the same thing be said of an Alex who was keeping a huge secret? He was described as being "moody, sometimes confident, even cocky; other times sullen, quiet and focused." I could see his behaviour patterns changing like this if he was under the pressure of keeping such a secret.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this possibility?
~Tas

"Can I ask you a favor?" - Liz
Liz interrupts Alex : Could you tell wardrobe people to burn my curtain coat?

"Five minutes ago, I found these here in Alex's room. They are concert tickets to Beth Orton. Alex bought them on the day he died, probably for him and Isabel. The concert is tonight. Don't you get it? You don't buy concert tickets on the day you kill yourself! You don't make plans for the future when you are not planning on having a future" - Liz
Alex says : Thank you Nancy Drew! The aliens really needed that since they're stupid and clueless. I mean they don't question people with knowledge, they don't try to decipher the Destiny Book and they do believe whatever their enemies say.

I love that site! It’s funny.

I'm going to go watch EOTW to see if I can figure anything out about what changed Alex's life for the worse.

BSR

Alexis OMG my tummy hurts from laughing at that last bit . Thats an awesome site where is that again?

Jessi : Ohh! I always knew you'd be perfect in this stuff . I'm soo glad you came ! I know they really should have performed an autopsy! I was thinking that when the where in the funeral I kept going "No! No! We have to perform an autopsy! What are you doing!" I bet the Whittmans would have said no though .
Someone said thats probably what Alex meant when he said "why does it always have to be a lie" (however that went). He meant about his trip. Sean probably called him and told him to go see him. I bet Sean got out to find out something . Although he seemed really sincere about Michael taking care of his fam.

*SIGH* I really wish I would tape these chapters so I can watch things again..grr...

*SIGH* I really wish I would tape these chapters so I can watch things again..grr...

Oh, they had plenty of time for an autopsy. In fact, it's probably required under the circumstances. Death by: car accident, or medical misadventure (stroke, seizure, heart attack, anyurism, etc.), or suicide, or murder.

What, you aren't taping these?!? Fer goodness sakes, WHY? (If you don't mind me asking...)

OT: You all know that, for a third season, we have to send lots of bottles of Tabasco to TPTB at UPN? You might also mention that you'll be insisting that your cable co. add a UPN station. AFIK, UPN's been having trouble getting enough people who CAN watch it; they don't have that many stations...

I still think it was he in the end, writing numbers instead of a signature, who cried his name (or tried to). -HH

GraceKel, I agree with your take on the deja vu of the eps. It's ironic, if nothing else. And do you or Zero or anyone recall our discussion of Windmills last summer?

Not sure where you're going with this (no pun intended, honest), but here's your car jpeg, Reg:

Not sure if that means anything. I realize that it's a very rough basic gist, but I never said I was an English major.

what do you guys think?

I love that site! It’s funny.
[/B]

ROTFLMHO!

This just made me laugh out loud!
Zero
I Shall (try to continue to) Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (But can only be found by a human!)

And: re the signature: I think it's Kvar's--maybe the podsquad would recognize it as Antarian language, but Liz hasn't showed it to them yet, or has she?

Also - Antar has never been mentioned on the show. It was on the Silverhandprint that it was "named." Since this is an official site, we began using it - though some still use Twilo - our name for the home planet (from the Dick Van Dyke show).

The picture - I believe that Liz picked it off the floor or found it in the side pocket of the car. I thought it strange it did not have blood on it, but can explain that away in my mind - especially, given the general LACK of blood everywhere else. It is also possible that the car was flipped and towed to the yard without being searched by the police, with the plan to search it/inventory it the next morning - and Liz, who obviously had not slept, beat them to the yard - finding the picture first.

The "group" picture that replaced it could have been behind the Leanna/Alex picture. I do that - put a more recent picture over an old one - sometimes. It does not look like much occurred in that room - so the timeline, what happened and where Alex was going are key questions.

I can hardly wait for Monday night!

BTW - OT - here's who you should be sending your letters and tabasco to:
Dean Valentine
President & CEO
United Paramount Network
11800 Wilshire Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA
90025

Tom Nunan
President, Entertainment
United Paramount Network
11800 Wilshire Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA
90025

I will be very sad if we don't have a season 3!

Zero
I Shall (try to continue to) Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (and only the humans can find it!)

Just my take on the no-autopsy situation.

If you don’t like spoilers stay away from the message board, although they are good about saying it’s spoiler discussion. Just want to warn you!
http://www.freespeech.org/somamoons/ratdg/episodes.htm

I thought it was so funny! Glad you and Zero thought it was funny.

No comments about the jacket we have all grown to hate?

Someone mentioned the fact that maybe Alex was going to see Sean - that they were working together......which got me thinking...didnt they show up back in town at the same time????????
Could there be more to Sean "lurking" in the CD during the Sweden slide show??? What if he wasnt there for Liz (as we assumed) but for Alex???????? I agree Sean seemed have a "that wasnt supposed to happen" response to hearing about Alex's death. What if he was there trying to protect the real Alex? What about Sean calling Alex "Alice" - a Matrix hint??? Has Alex gone "through the looking glass???" It really is looking like Sean is a protector. And I agree that Alex is in an alternate dimension.

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

quote:Originally posted by StarBox:
Re: Leanna - who is she???
I really, really, really think she is Lonnie.
Lonnie - Leanna - the names are so similar.
Also - Lonnie told Nicolas she could get home with or without the summit.....and we know that beginning with Alex's death - the next episodes will culminate in "Departure" - the season finale that supposedly deals with them going home (or not going home).
AND - Alex has such a weak spot for Isabel - I am guessing Lonnie/Leanna could have played on that - perhaps he found her out and "came back from Sweden" - thus his looking at her photo and saying "it was all a lie". I am guessing that maybe he was possibly being tricked into joining forces with Lonnie and the bad guys but he found out about the deception. Then again - not sure how the cold food fits in - but Nicolas eating from his plate surely fits in...
OOOOOOOOOOOH - I just had a thought - on Antar - we know Nicolas was - in a sense "eating from Khivars plate" with his affair with Vilondra......so could this be a clue that Alex truly was being Khivar-possessed.........

GOOD IDEA! Leanna being Lonnie! There has to be something to her and why she was so important to Alex and then Alex's dying. It all has to be connected and Lonnie did leave our view with "a few cards up her sleeve". Maybe she figured she could get to the group through someone else and since there are only two human guys (Kyle and Alex) and Kyle has been "taken care of" by T, so that just leaves Alex!

quote:Someone mentioned the fact that maybe Alex was going to see Sean - that they were working together......which got me thinking...didnt they show up back in town at the same time????????
Could there be more to Sean "lurking" in the CD during the Sweden slide show??? What if he wasnt there for Liz (as we assumed) but for Alex???????? I agree Sean seemed have a "that wasnt supposed to happen" response to hearing about Alex's death. What if he was there trying to protect the real Alex?

OK, so Sean and Alex knew each other from years ago, right? The same way Liz new Sean for a long time? I guess I just never thought about Alex going to see Sean - why would he do that? Alex didn't seem too fond of Sean when they "ran into each other" at the slide show. And I can't remember them ever being in the same place at the same time after that, can you!?

quote:What about Sean calling Alex "Alice" - a Matrix hint??? Has Alex gone "through the looking glass???" It really is looking like Sean is a protector. And I agree that Alex is in an alternate dimension.

You do create some great ideas though - especially with Max and Michael's recent convo. I must say I just LOVED that scene... o O (crappy tigger ).

We exhume! We exhume! Got it !! But I'm guessing those papers Sheriff gave Max to read had no autopsy report in it did it?

quote:Originally posted by Reggie:
What, you aren't taping these?!? Fer goodness sakes, WHY? (If you don't mind me asking...)

Reggie I ask myself that EVERYTIME I come in here . I dunno why my father thought it necessary to get two of those fancy schmancy VCRs that you can edit from one VHS tape to the other ? Maybe he thought he would start editing our home movies only we don't have a camcorder to have any home movies. Perhaps something he plans to do in retirement :confussed: who knows. So no it doesn't matter how much I program the thing to tape it will only tape whatever is playing on channel 3 (yes I even changed the VCR channel number too every possible combination--my bro and I have tried everything ). And now he doesn't let me touch the thing . I figure I'll wait til we get Roswell on DVD so I can show my children how to hunt for clues (just kiddin).

Shapeshifter- Thats a very interesting idea on the Alex essence but he's not an alien so how can they drop it into a big person body?

RE: the car
On another note, not that I think anything else happened but that car looks like it was hit from the side (?) then sandwiched. Unless both lanes drive on the left hand side in Roswell how could that car have had a head on collision and not break the left headlight?

Starbox -- hmmm, I don't think the names sound similar at all but you could definately be correct.

Alexis-- Thank you soo soo much for the link . I can't wait to check it out! **MOMENTS LATER** OMG I can't stop coughing this was hilarious too :
(the visuals )
...while Isabel does the real time voice over when Max gets in the van...
And the whole wagon will shake - Isabel
Alex says: You know what they say. If this vans a rockin'...

(from Destiny)
MANIPULATION OF Molecular Structures:

- The Alien Four made the orbs work and saw their mother and found out they are supposed to save their home planet and all kinds of mind blowing stuff including the fact that Max is the leader (I think someone dropped too much acid in the 60's).

Ohh, ok I'm sorry I just had to share . This is my new favorite site . OK back to mything...

Aldebaran – quote: People, people! This is TV - we don't do autopsies. We exhume! An autopsy would mean a hurried storyline, more information now than TPTB might want to give. An exhumation means that someone has to have evidence, proof that there was foulplay. That means that more time for investigating is needed - thus a more spread out storyline.

That is so true! How many graves have I seen dug up on TV! Like I said in an earlier post – it would be interesting to see if we got an Alex that was decomposing or ash! I bet you are right!!

Alexis – I actually like the jacket because it has vines on it – which is symbolic on this thread – though it does look like something Mary Poppins might pull out of her carpet bag!

Brainchick – glad I could help!

StarBox – I think you might be right, though it would mean the Dupes are shapeshifters. I will have to wait on that one a bit. BUT obviously – something BAD is up with Leanna!! I can’t believe that the Podsters will ACTUALLY go home – so that little teaser is obviously a foreshadowing of something big coming up! And I would NOT be surprised if Lonnie and Nicko are involved! And Tess for that matter - !

Love the “Alice” connection to the Matrix! If you haven’t seen the Matrix – you have to rent it – the white rabbit is a clue! Great catches – though the jury is still out on Sean, though I like him so far and hope he does turn out to be good! Even if it is Courtney type of good!

Zero
I Shall (try to continue to) Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (and only the humans can find it!)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one is disgusted with what is supposed to happen on Monday's episode. notice I said supposed cuz I believe it will turn out to be some illusion of some sort. Your eyes can play some real good tricks on you

Roxy

Another point. Someone asked if Liz would catch on that Alex's death was partly her fault, since he originally danced at their wedding. I think she knew immediately! That's why she's so furious immediately: she knows it had to be a hostile move, because nothing else would explain it. Alex hadn't had an accident, or been suicidal, the first time around. Part of what's driving her is her guilt, and a determination to set things right. She can't save Alex, but by golly she'll have Alex's murder acknowleged, and avenged! Grrr....

Just a few new observations--nothing profound really (as if mine ever are )

I watched CYN again last night (I just can't stop myself ) to see if there were any highway markers or anything at Alex's crash site. The only sign I saw was one of those yellow diamond-shaped warning signs with a curvy line on it. Oh, and the back of the ambulance had an 8 on it. Has anyone else noticed a highway marker maybe? I really hoped there would be a clue where Alex was going.

The truck driver said he had 1 drink, 3 hours before he went on the road. Kind of stretching, but there's the 1 and 3 again, or 1+3=4.

At the end, when Liz picks up the group prom picture, the camera focuses on Tess first, then Isabel and Alex. These are the only people in the group that are shown. Are TPTB trying to tell us that Tess had something to do with Alex's death after all?

On the subject of fake pictures--didn't someone notice what appeared to be a Crashdown waitress in the picture of Alex's host family?

Reggie: Did you notice that Tess gives Liz a dirty look when Max steps toward Liz instead of going after Isabel like she ordered? For a minute, I thought it looked like Tess wanted to hit her!!

My new signature is in honor of Max !! RBI, until after the horror that is the next episode.

1. Liz and Max often form the 'Orb' symbloe while embracing

2.Is Tess playing with Kyle (Britney's "Oops..." Lyrics, song played in HoM [Didn't actually see the D*** eppy]) to become more accepted with the others?

3. Binary code for Alex's credit card info

4. Why would Max need Liz to look at him when he healed her (A la The Pilot Episode) and not Kyle and the hospitalized kids? (a la Destiny and Christmas Wish)
-Has Max always been away of his connection to Liz? (THerefore the others alien's connection to Liz)
-Perhaps Max subconciously knows he needs to help her develop her powers so she can take her role in destiny
-CYN possible by product of Liz fighting off mind warp that would lead to the others believing in Alex's suicide

6. Word CHERRY a clue?
~Tess "Four Square", "I'll have a CHERRY coke with a lime" afterwards Max begins mindwarp trip of Tess
~Delivery Boy "Cry Your Name", "Soory man, I got turned around on Cherry Drive", afterwards Alex becomes depressed

(Does Delivery boy work with Tess in a plot against others?)

7.When Alex returns from Polad, mentions that Liz should do some travelling, foreshadowing Liz's 'Journey' (a la, "I have promises to keep// And Miles to go before I sleep//and miles to go before I sleep"

8.Notes that Liz plays on Alex's guitar, possible meaning? ((Note: if someone is into music and can identify the notes, it might spell something?))

9.Weepy Tess in Cry Your Name
a. guilt getting to her involving Alex's death?
b.Tess involved in plan with Nikolas and Lonnie, shocked they ended up killing Alex?
c. Tess feigning shock to show how sensitive she is to Max?

10. In the Liz scene with Alex's locker in Cry Your Name, there's a poster shown that says "Try"

Again, these are just a measly few, but if anyone has anything to add to the list that they recall or can look back on, that would be appreciated. Also, I didn't say who I quoted from, but you know who you are, and great job!

"I'm Liz Parker and three days ago I died. But then the really amazing thing happened. I came to life"

Quoted:
"I'm the Punk rock prom queen
In the brown paper magazine
Hotter than you've ever seen
And everywhere in between"

"Warning: Mental backup in process"

"I'm sick of my parents asking me how school was today. It's like a drive by shooting. You don't care, you're just glad you got out alive"

OBTW: Crashdown has a listing for "Maria reviews CYN", or something like that. I don't think it's a "trailer" - I think it's the next episode's intro!

Moderators? Is that a "spoiler"? Have I polluted myself? It was an accident, honest...

When did this start? Do you think, in hindsight, that the 'Ghost' in ARCC was an attempt at this, but with Liz's help, he beat it?

Possible? Hmmmm...

WR

This is what I think....

Remember MITC, when Ava asked Liz how did she meet Max??? Now notice,
they were not talking about Max, so why all of a sudden did she asked how did
she meet Max??? Why not asked about how did Liz meet all of them???

I'll tell you why, because Ava knew right then that Liz was he one, at least I
think she did. It also explains, her awe of the fact that Max saved Liz, and her
confidence in Liz's ability to use her powers, because Ava knew what was int eh
book.

By asking LIz, she had to be sure, the reason why she just didn't say that she
and Zan were not in love is because she probably didn't know if Liz was the
"one" or not. So she palyed it off by saying what she said about Zan waiting for
someone else.

Point two about Ava. Notice that she stayed behind. Now at first, I didn't
question that , but know that I think about it, it's good that she did stay behind,
perhaps to warn Liz???? Maybe Ava had a feeling or maybe she knew that she
would be able to help LIz more than if she goes back to NY with he rest of the
aliens.

So she stays, with the person that she feels maybe the one...

Hence the last point about Ava(I am such an alleycat:catHer collage....both
her and Tess are similiar in that they are very descriptive with their notes, and
those notes give clues to either what they are(Tess) or what they know(Ava).

Ava's notes included Liz, as "boy meets girl?" Now I know why, becuase Ava
knew that Liz was special...see she never told anybody that she made a
collage of info, nor did we see her do it...but the fact that she did speaks for
itself.

Same as knowing the info about Liz...she never said anything to anybody, yet
we know from subtel hints that Ava dropped, the dupe, who nobody paid
attention, and snapped on, the one who was taken in by the "true bride", she
holds the key for infomation that matters.

Maybe Ava was testing her, since Liz past the first test of kindness by offering
her a stranger her home, then she knows she loves Max, and then her powers,
all necessary for Liz to be the best mate for Maxwell on Earth.

[/B]

Hey Alexis! I'm one of RATDG contributors and I'm glad you and roswelldiva like our site but the Martian League Chronicles aren't ours. They were originally created by some posters from the Max/Liz spoilers thread. I think they also have a thread in the FF Other forum.

Anyway, my mind keeps going back to the Frost poem that keeps coming up through the episode. We had just studies the poem in my teacher ed class and its about a man contemplating suicide:

Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening
by Robert Frost

Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

I can't help but think that there are similarities between this poem and the way Alex dies, but I can't figure it out.
Anyone have any ideas?

Well since i'm all alone tonight i'm going to watch from MITC until now. To see if I can find out anything.

BSR

We've already established the similarities thing, but I read it over a few times after printing out so I could see it right in front of me, and something just occured to me

"Whose woods these are I think I know"

This means Liz is onto something, she's beginning to grasp what's happening and what has happened to Alex. Not giving in to the deception that Alex's death was the first step.

"His house is in the village though"
This could mean that Alex is long gone, and Liz accepts that.

"He will not see me stopping here"
Another relation to Alex, he won't see her but he leaves her clues.

"To watch the woods fill up with snow"
This could mean that the woods means the others (Max, Tess, Maria, Kyle, Isabel, etc.( and filling up with snow means beginning to believe lies and deceptions, caused by a higher power.

"My Little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near"
This could meaan Liz's friends, besides Maria and Kyle. They think she's stupid to believe that Alex's death could be a murder, without any real proof.

"Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year"
This could be Liz's darkest hour. She's divided between her friends. She;s completely alone in what she has to do.

"He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake"
Her friends questioning her again? Could this mean present of future? More troubled waters? I think so.

I'm skippping a line

"The woods are lovely, dark and deep
But I have promises to keep
And miles to go before I sleep
And miles to go before I sleep"

This could mean it would be easier to just give it up and join her friends again, and try to rekindle things with Max, but she promised Alex that she'd find out what happened, and therefore, will lead her to a journey.

Sorry, my insightfulness is dwindling. Most of this we already knew. Just relating to the episode.

...
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

I can't help but think that there are similarities between this poem and the way Alex dies, but I can't figure it out.
Anyone have any ideas?Welcome dreamer-in-cali,
I think Alex has decided to commit suicide because he is possessed by Kvar. I'm not sure if Kvar wanted to suicide Alex, or if Alex thinks the suicide is necessary to prevent Kvar from harming Isabel et al through Alex's body. So, I'm hoping that Alex--techie genius that he is--figured a way to foil the suicide plot so his sould could live on even though his body and Kvar (hopefully) died.

While it might be interesting to ponder what Frost meant in the poem, it's been more fun for me to consider what Alex might have been trying to say via the poem. Of course I don't really know, but here's what I get out of it... Forgive my over-simplification!

"Whose woods these are I think I know."

Is Alex figuring out who's manipulating everything?

"His house is in the village though;"

(It's someone from somewhere else...)

"He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow."

Stopping = Alex stopping his own life? Is Alex trying to outsmart whoever the villain is by staging his own death? Who is it that won't see? Of course the snow makes me think of the skins when they were eliminated)

"My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near"

Well, well, there's the HORSE again, huh! Remember the horse ran in front of L/M in the Jeep, and it resulted in the accident in Blood Brothers, ALEX's FIRST DUTY FOR THE PODSTERS!!!!! GIVING BLOOD!! Is this the second time he's had to sacrifice his blood for them? The line also parallels the question by many: Where was Alex was GOING when he died?

"Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year."

Is this life and death? Does darkest=the most evil?

"He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake."

???

"The woods are lovely, dark and deep."

Alex has reached a point of knowing: the woods (Earth?) are full of loveliness (LOVE?), contrasted with darkness (evil?) and depth (profound awareness???)... Is this Alex/Isabel? Khivar/Vilandra?

"But I have promises to keep,"

What has he promised and to whom?

"And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."

His mantra of duty? On a mission to right a wrong?

I guess I've raised more questions than proposed answers. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Zara

Zara

Starbox absolutely loved the ALICE through the LOOKING GLASS thing--its funny but I kept thinking there was a clue there but couldn't think of what it was!!!

Metaphysicalgrl-went back and watched to see if I saw BLOOD--and I have to agree with others here---yes I see blood.

Zero--I agree about Sean--sitting on the fence about him--geez would they have played such a beautiful song during that conversation between Liz and Sean if he was evil????? LOL!!!! I would expect a little voodoo music or something LOL!!! I loved that song "LAST YEAR was the best...." it was beautiful. But that said they could be lulling the audience into a false sense of security hmmm???

I noticed that the day of Alex's funeral and also the concert was May 5th, other wise known as Cinco de Mayo. Here is a little history about this date.

Cinco de Mayo is a date of great importance for the Mexican and Chicano communities. It marks the victory of the Mexican Army over the French at the Battle of Puebla. Althought the Mexican army was eventually defeated, the "Batalla de Puebla" came to represent a symbol of Mexican unity and patriotism. With this victory, Mexico demonstrated to the world that Mexico and all of Latin America were willing to defend themselves of any foreign intervention. Especially those from imperialist states bent on world conquest.

So could this mean Alex was welling to defend against any foreign, or should we say "alein" intervention who were bent on world conquest. Just how deep was Alex's involvement?
Oh and get this. The French were eventually able to depose the Mexican army, take over Mexico City and install "Maximilian" as ruler.

Evid

First about the movies ... I'd just like to point out that though I loved the camparison of Lu Shien and Li Mu Bai to Max and Liz, I have to point out that Green Destiny was not stolen for evil purposes. In fact, it was not stolen for any real purpose at all.
Jen is an adolescent struggling against her place in society. She is impetuous and controlled by her temper mostly because she is young and dissatisfied with her life. I'd also like to point out that part of her confusion was because of the influence Jade Fox had over her and her -conflicting loyalties-. Jade Fox taught Jen how to fight originally, even if Jen eventually surpassed her. Another thing is that Li Mu Bai took a great interest in Jen and wanted to teach her.
All in all, the comparison to Tess with Jen is still a good one, I think, because I see Tess and struggling with the role that has been set for her while another influence (Harding-Jade Fox) has had power over her.

About the Matrix, well, I feel it important say that Neo believes for most of the movie that he is no one particularly special - Just like Liz believes.

As for the binary ... All our favorite numbers come back into play. E is the FIFTH letter of the alphabet, and D is the FOURTH. 9 is 5 and 4 added together. I can't draw any conclusions from this, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Oh and Mandi - the manga you're talking about is X by Clamp, right? I don't want to spoil you, but I don't think we want Roswell turning out like X. For one thing, Kamui is, I think, less honorable than Liz ... both sides court him and he really does take a while in deciding. And for another ... the ending is just depressing. Watch the movie and you'll know what I mean. Also, I think Roswell must ultimately be about the UNION of heaven and earth (Max and Liz) and not the emnity of heaven and earth.

It was my theory that the lack of blood was because of the viewers. No one wants to see a car covered in dried blood.

I can't help but think that Alex is really dead, even though I don't want that to be so. He did say "I loved you" (God I was bawling at that scene) and ... his body was in a body bag and Max was definitely close enough to see it. That scene was a cringer for me. I don't blame Max for not wanting to touch him? Who would want to touch the bloody dead body of a friend? Certainly not I.

Someone earlier brought up the idea that one of the aliens was going to have to go back and support Liz. I agree with you there. My money's on Mikey-G or Iz. Even though I hope it would be Max ... not bloody likely.

Boy this is long. Later!

z.a.

So we have some dates, but I'm not sure of them. There's the day he bought the tickets and died. Then there's Kyle's birthday (odd bit to script unless it means something), Then there's the funeral/day of the concert.

Hey, RBIer Liz should go to the concert with the tickets & see who shows up!

About the signature:
1110 0100 1001 1101 1001
To me it looks more like:
1110 0 100 100 1110 1 100 1
Or a pattern of:
A 0 B B A 1 B 1
Not sure about the 0 and 1

Just as he signs it he looks hard at the delivery boy and says "why does everything have to be a lie?" which also followed on the heels of the 'end of the world' comment.
What if in the pre-FM visit version of life, Tess went & joined the Kvar faction and that's who took over, but in the post-FM visit version Tess is just helping 'Maximillian' to take over? --which would still kill off the humans...

If Collin Hanks later wants to continue with the show, and if the show continues, it seems that given the burial of the body, the only way to 'resurect' him would be a time warp in which Liz gets in the Granolith and goes back to warn Alex!

Moderators: If we go over 250 tonight, please hang on to your hats (antennae) and Zero & I will start the new thread first thing in the morning! (We're on the West Coast, so if you're in the east, we may appear to be sleeping in, but: NOT! )

SO many newbies posting these days! I don't have time to individually welcome you, but it is great to have your input! Welcome to our little thread!

I didn't have time to up-date the Intro yet - and we are moving towards thread #39 fast - but I hope to up-date it with the new clues/insights by thread #40. GoddessFarore51 - I don't do a summary of everything we talk about, but I do keep track of general discussions and fact finding, and every now and then when a have a lot of time I interweave it into the Intro that used to be posted at the beginning of each thread, and now is linked to the Table of Contents. The Intro is SOOOOO long now, that it is no easy task to up-date it - at least the way I like to which means going through the entire thing. I have a new respect to book editors! But feel free to summarize away - I will copy it to remind me during my up-date.

You all are great!

Oh - I was the one who mentioned that I think at least one of the podsters will join Liz in her quest. I think it will be Mikey G due to his connection to Maria - but Iz is a likely candidate too! Max is totally out of there though! And Tess - well don't make me laugh!

Also - it has been bugging me that Liz was wearing GC's neclace - and it was pointed out on the silverhandprint! I think it is a clue/foreshadowing that CG is going to show back up somehow - maybe through her book or connection to the podsters in the past! But I think it was a clue to us Myth/RBIers from JK - or whomever does the silverhandprint. They know we are here - and I believe they are dropping us clues.

There is a new "Maria chalkboard talk" on the Crashdown - and it is interesting! Basically, she says Liz WILL solve the mystery surrounding Alex's death!

Well - I'm off this weekend after tomorrow at noon. SO - if we reach 250 before than, I will start the new thread. If not, I will ask Shapeshifter or StarBox to do it in my absence.

I'm so glad that our "approach" to watching the show has helped so many get through these - otherwise - difficult episodes to watch. It is fun to read all the new "takes" on the episodes!

Night all -
Zero
I Shall (try to continue to) Believe!
The Truth Is Out There! (and only the humans can find it!)

I guess I've raised more questions than proposed answers. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Zara

Well, one theory I have is that Alex was possessed, and he knew it. He also knew whoever it was who possessed him (Khivar?) was planning on killing him. Therefore Alex left the poem (about a man contemplating suicide, but in the end choosing life) as a clue that it wasn't his decision to commit suicide, but he couldn't fight the influence of Khivar, and was only in control long enough to mark the poem as a hint.

I just got done re-watching VLV and I have come to a conclusion. Mickey G may possibley know about the FMax thing, and therefore, may be trying to help Liz and MAX indirectly.
You know how the trend of this Season has been that things have happened or said when the camera isn't rolling?? Eg. - Max going to Liz's window every night (EOTW), Maria's "chalkboard" talk about how things have been "busy" in Roswell, etc. Well, I am figuring Maria told Michael about what Liz had done. (Remember their little trip with Laurie??)

This is why: Michael's dream was very reminiscent to what actually happened in the first time-line. The exception: Max "disappeared" before he was shot (just like FMax disappeared on Liz's balcony, according to Liz). His nightmares are his fear that it could happen again.

M wants Max to go to VLV. Why?? To have fun, no rules - and/or could it be to trigger his memory??

He tells Maria at school that he has "stuff to do" on this trip. When Max decides to leave LV, he makes a comment; "finally my vacation can begin". In other words, his work is done!!

I felt he purposely cheated to get Max to really listen to him (in jail). He makes a comment about Max's "bleeding heart" in a sarcastic tone. (like get over it allready) IMHO, he was trying to get him to loosen him up, have fun, heal people like he used to -- to care again. His "robot" comment made Max realize that he needs to live a little, enjoy life!!

Mickey seemed surprised and happy to see Max asking Liz to dance.

BUT -- the key to this conclusion was the last thing Mickey said: "as long as we stick together, we're going to make it". Where did he get this from?? How does he know this??

Therefore, if my assumption is correct, Mickey could play an important role in helping Liz, as well as Max. He may be keeping an eye out for both of them, as well as knowing that the Royal4 have to stick together.

Sorry if this was OT, I just had to get it off my chest. Now, I can go to sleep.

This was posted at http://bbs2.fanforum.com/Forum3/HTML/007133.html
quote:Originally posted by qtoo:
...I watched the first dream sequence between Alex and Isabelle three times and just got it. Don't Alex's questions of her sound the least bit suspicious? Why was he asking her about such mundane things after being so tramatically parted from her? And the nature of the questions...She is planning on staying in Roswell to be near him, but now that he's dead, she is going to go to San Francisco. His death is the deciding factor in Iz's decision to leave Roswell and the other 3 aliens necessary for the four to triumph! Remember what future Max says to Liz about the four needing to be together to use all their powers? Perhaps the enemy aliens are dreamwalking Iz in her grief, posing as Alex, to get info on her decision about leaving or staying to see if their killing Alex accomplished their goal of separating the Royal Four...

I just got done re-watching VLV and I have come to a conclusion. Mickey G may possibley know about the FMax thing, and therefore, may be trying to help Liz and MAX indirectly.
You know how the trend of this Season has been that things have happened or said when the camera isn't rolling?? Eg. - Max going to Liz's window every night (EOTW), Maria's "chalkboard" talk about how things have been "busy" in Roswell, etc. Well, I am figuring Maria told Michael about what Liz had done. (Remember their little trip with Laurie??)

This is why: Michael's dream was very reminiscent to what actually happened in the first time-line. The exception: Max "disappeared" before he was shot (just like FMax disappeared on Liz's balcony, according to Liz). His nightmares are his fear that it could happen again.

M wants Max to go to VLV. Why?? To have fun, no rules - and/or could it be to trigger his memory??

He tells Maria at school that he has "stuff to do" on this trip. When Max decides to leave LV, he makes a comment; "finally my vacation can begin". In other words, his work is done!!

I felt he purposely cheated to get Max to really listen to him (in jail). He makes a comment about Max's "bleeding heart" in a sarcastic tone. (like get over it allready) IMHO, he was trying to get him to loosen him up, have fun, heal people like he used to -- to care again. His "robot" comment made Max realize that he needs to live a little, enjoy life!!

Mickey seemed surprised and happy to see Max asking Liz to dance.

BUT -- the key to this conclusion was the last thing Mickey said: "as long as we stick together, we're going to make it". Where did he get this from?? How does he know this??

Therefore, if my assumption is correct, Mickey could play an important role in helping Liz, as well as Max. He may be keeping an eye out for both of them, as well as knowing that the Royal4 have to stick together.

Sorry if this was OT, I just had to get it off my chest. Now, I can go to sleep.

Wow, tp, ITA with your whole post. When I think about, it makes so much sense. I hope you're right about this. And if you're not, I hope one of the aliens find out about FMax and EOTW very soon. IMO, once Liz finds out about Isabel leaving Roswell for college she'll have to tell her.

anyway, goodnight everyone.

I'm pretty sure that you are right. Alex was obviuosly posessed by something...."It's always so cold here." I feel like I've heard that before.

He was deifinately trying to protect the gang from something.

quote:Originally posted by Zara:
[b]Dreamer-in-call, thank you for posting Frost's "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" in its entirety. I do have some thoughts about it, but I certainly don't presume to understand the poem or its use better than anyone else...

Well, well, there's the HORSE again, huh! Remember the horse ran in front of L/M in the Jeep, and it resulted in the accident in Blood Brothers, ALEX's FIRST DUTY FOR THE PODSTERS!!!!! GIVING BLOOD!! Is this the second time he's had to sacrifice his blood for them? The line also parallels the question by many: Where was Alex was GOING when he died?

"Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year."

Is this life and death? Does darkest=the most evil?

Alex has reached a point of knowing: the woods (Earth?) are full of loveliness (LOVE?), contrasted with darkness (evil?) and depth (profound awareness???)... Is this Alex/Isabel? Khivar/Vilandra?

I guess I've raised more questions than proposed answers. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Zara

Shnikeys! I suck at interpreting literature and poems, and I think you hit some good points. I like the horse, I wonder if that was planned. Hmmm...

I've been wondering about John Doe, too! I could be mistaken, but I believe he was listed in the opening credits for HOM as well, and I don't remember seeing him in the episode (again, I could be wrong). I like him. He seems like a good guy.

Edited to add:

TP, I like your post on Michael's motives in VLV. You've made lots of good points!

Zara

Anyway, I'm very taken with the idea that at least one of the pod squad will have to go back and help Liz. There's very good reasons for both Mikey and Iz.

Mikey G was the last alien to leave the room, and his last look was for Maria. Never before this episode has his loyalty and love for Maria been so apparent. (It makes me happy ^_^) However, if Maria doesn't fully support Liz, Mikey might not either.

Iz loves Alex. That alone is reason for her to want to find out the truth. Liz has put forward clear evidence that Alex didn't kill himself, and Iz already feels guilty about his death. It may be that to get over her guilt she must find out the truth and avenge his death (or something). Also, if Liz does tell her the truth about FMax to keep her in Roswell, she'll probably want to help Liz as much as she can.

But there are other hands to both of these arguments.

Mikey's first loyalty is to Max. And with their renewed bond he may not want to defy him. It could be that he goes to Maria but doesn't help Liz.

The same goes for Iz - her loyalty is to her brother and because she betrayed him in their past life she's very concious of betraying him now. Also, she may feel responsible, but she doesn't want everyone to blame her for Alex's death.

There's also another possibility. What if both Mikey G and Iz decide to help Liz? That would split the pod squad straight down the middle and could prove to be very interesting. Also, having his best friend and his sister turn to Liz could be a needed wake up call to Max!

Just a little of my speculation. Wow ... why do I also post such long messages?
Later all!

z.a.

shapeshifter: I would hope with everything that has happened after TEOTW, most importantly Alex's death. Liz would never consider using the Granolith to change time once again.

And speaking of playing God.

I couldn't figure out why Tess telling Max in the promo that she would be with him for eternity bothered me so much. Well I'm a Dreamer, more so an Applesaucer, so yes it would bug me but their is more to it. I wouldn't want Liz to tell Max this and I know she never would.
I think Tess is once again telling Max that they are above God or God like. Eternity is just another word for immortaliy. One exempt from death ~Gods. If Tess is not mindwarping with her powers she is with her words. Max is very weak around Tess, she does seem to seek him out when he is and that's a lot lately. He always seems to be falling apart or confused around her, he can't think for himself and she will guide him into thinking he is a God. Wake up Max and join humanity, join Liz.

Evid

What if all this is supposed to be happening? What if Liz is destined to be with Shawn?

What if.....Max and Tess eventually fall in love because that's what they're supposed to do?

Would we stop watching? (Well I wouldn't)

Dang what a depressing thought. Though Shawn and Liz are kinda cute.

Anyway, I think a very good point was made. Tess is always around Max whe he's at his weakest, whether from her using her mindwarp powers on him, or from emotional stress or tension.

To me she's kinda like margarine or soy milk or something. It's never quite the same as the real thing, especially when it's fat free. Liz however, is the real thing, pure all the way through. Max should wake up...and smell the non-decaf coffee, but he can't, 'cause Tess, like a python, luring him into her trap.

Errr...sorry, that was creepy

Just trying to lighten themood or something.

"I'm the punk rock prom queen
In the brown paper magazine
Hotter than you've ever seen
And everything in between"

I'm Liz Parker and three days ago I died. But then the really amazing thing happened. I came to life.

cool cool cool

The book takes place two years after the shooting (next year). I wont post about Tess/Alex but this book is approved by TPTB behind the series - and it is supposed to be out next month (possibly intended to get out after the finale) - so - if you dont want to know - wait on the book. If you are DYING to know - PM me and Ill tell you if Tess is around and if Alex is dead

**StarBox**
mythologist, dreamer

Star Box - I can hardly wait to read the book! How did you get it early? PM me with information! Though I don't know if we should consider it a Spoiler - so off topic for this thread??? What does everyone think???

Off to Start A New Thread!

Zero